clueless on batteries

[patton]

I feel dumb for asking but, I need to replace my batteries. I have a 2000 21CC, dual batts, what type of batt and make do you guys like? I was told to get one deep cycle and one starting...? also, when do you switch from one to the other.

 

[DaleH]

Just my opine ...

I buy dual-purpose combo starting/deep cycle G27 or G29 batteries from Wal-Mart for the 4 boats I'll be running/maintaining this season and they're also used in the 5 or 6 other boats my brothers are running. They are made by Johnson Controls, the same company who owns and makes Optima gel batteries. FWIW a G24 battery is rated for V6 OBs, as the starters only draw ~220 amps while cranking. But if using any OB with newer e-brains, definitely go the bigger G27 batteries.

To rotate their use ...

PURCHASE:
I rotate a new one in every 2-years and once after 4-years of use in the big boat, they'll go into one of my pull-start skiffs for use as a bilge pump/rainwater battery.

DAILY USE:
Use battery switch position #1 on odd days of the week (per calendar) and #2 on even days. Simple, foolproof ... and it works . On occasion I'll run on "Both", say when running out for toona, but then I'll never shut my motor off for even one minute.

CAUTION on "Both": (If not equipped with isolator or combiner)
If/when running on "Both" and you shut your motor off, make darn sure to switch the battery switch to #1 or #2 or the two batteries will equalize. If you had a boomer battery and a dead battery and you started up on the boomer, then switched to "Both" ... you could end up with two batteries, neither with enough juice to start your motor.

 

[DougP]

:roll: Newbie question,

1. do i start the engine while the battery selector is on "1" or "2", then turn the battery selector switch to "both" after starting the enging to charge them while making a long run?

2. Is it safe to start the engine while the battery selector switch is set to "both"? you know like if I happen to run both down to low to start on one battery.

I never had dual batteris before :?

thanks

 

[DaleH]

2. Is it safe to start the engine while the battery selector switch is set to "both"? you know like if I happen to run both down to low to start on one battery.

Safe? Absolutely! Is it what you should do? No, do so ONLY in emergencies. Others may have different opinions, but this is the advice as per the battery selector switch makers.

 

[gray duck]

not an attempt to hijack but I have related question for dual batts with twin engines. What do twins people do? I'd like to adopt Dale's practice but realize that with twins I may need to alter it a little. Run stbd on #1. port on #2? Run both on #1 one day, #2 the next. If I stop to bottom fish, can I run instruments on #1 and then get both engines going off of #2 if #1 gets too low? And I was thinkin of adding a third batt - then I'll really be confused...

 

[DaleH]

not an attempt to hijack but I have related question for dual batts with twin engines. What do twins people do?

For TWIN OBs I'd use a battery management cluster from BEP Marine, click here. They are clearly a superior product, combining 2 dedicated start batteries (still could be dual purpose batteries) with a house battery (use deep cycle for deep drawing).

 

[DaleH]

A couple of battery ?'s for the pros.................

My current pair of Bass Pro batteries are (each) slightly below Yamaha required battery specs in some areas. By runnin on "Both" do the specs double, or as in voltage, the specs remain the same?

exp. Each battery has 650 CCA, on "Both" would that be 1300 CCA?

If I run selector on "one" or "two" alternate trips as most here do, how does other battery get charged? AFAIK, all big Yamahas have a built in Isolator circuit. If true, does that weight in the equation?

Good questions Doug. Less member Sparky, not sure there's any pros here! Let's see if I can help.

RUNNING on BOTH:
When you run on both, your ampacity doubles, but your voltage equalizes or averages between the 2 batteries. That is why I cautioned about boats without an isolator or combiner about running on Both unless you won't shut down the motor. So if you had a 12.8V battery and your other was dead @ 10V, they'd both be 11.4V (it would take a while to equalize) and that might not be enough to start the motor.

WHICH ONE CHARGES?
When running on 1 or 2, only that battery gets charged. Even though I said before I run #1 on odd days and #2 on even days, if I'm using the boat on SAT and know I won't be out on SUN, what I'll do is run out and fish on 1 battery and switch to run back in on the other. My point here is to simply try and equalize use between the 2 batteries, plus keep them both topped off.

ISOLATOR CIRCUITS:
Yes, that does change the scenario. I believe those will charge either battery whenever demanded, regardless of which one you're running on. But one would need to check their manual to ensure the boat's wiring to/from the batteries is setup as per the manufacturer's recommendations.

 

[Megabyte]

I'm no pro, but this is what I've done since buying my 2520.

I replaced the flooded cell batteries the boat came with, with a pair of Optima blue-top (dual-purpose) batteries in 2003.

When I run my boat, I always run with the selector switch on 'Both' so the batteries get used and recharged at the same rate.
My method has been working for 7 seasons now, so I see no need to change what I'm doing.

I do carry an emergency battery 'jump-box' on board, but have never had to use it.

Nothing high tech being done here. 8)

 

[Totally Hooked]

i just put 2 new batteries in my 2320 i installed AGM group 31 batteries they fit in the factory battery trays i change batteries every 2 years i run my batteries hard if any one needs batteries and they live on long island i found a great place with good prices they have every battery u could need.

 

[Megabyte]

Optima batteries will last 7 years? :shock:

They have so far.
I also have an Optima red-top in my Jeep that has been in continuous service since 1999.

How do yer know when to change out batteries ?

Well... you could wait until they begin to not keep a charge. :shock:
That option might be OK in the family truckster, but isn't such a good idea on the boat.

My plan is the swap out the boat batteries for a pair of group 31 Lifelines this season (funds permitting).
The Optimas will then be pressed into service powering the battery-backup sump pump in my basement.

Group 31 Lifelines can easilly last 10 years with normal care.
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/

 

[grouperjim]

WHICH ONE CHARGES?
When running on 1 or 2, only that battery gets charged. Even though I said before I run #1 on odd days and #2 on even days, if I'm using the boat on SAT and know I won't be out on SUN, what I'll do is run out and fish on 1 battery and switch to run back in on the other. My point here is to simply try and equalize use between the 2 batteries, plus keep them both topped off.

FROM PARKER.......

For your application, if you have the battery switch on 1, then the engine will be cranked and will charge battery 1. It is advisable to select either 1 or 2, so those batteries will get a full charge. There are occasions when BOTH would be selected, say you don’t have enough charge on the individual batteries to crank. However, once the engines have started it is advisable to switch to battery 1 and then 2 to get a full charge instead of splitting the charge between the two engines.
Hope this helps answer your questions. If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Thank you for choosing Parker.

................................................................................

In the past (other larger boats) i have set up a third house battery and charged it by running a wire from the extra charging lead coming off the alternator (f250/f225) and connecting it to the positive side of the third batt.

Realizing that in my current single engine setup that it is the battery cable that delivers the charge from the alternator to the selected battery, depending on which batt is selected on the rotary switch...........

would it be feasible to connect the same charging lead mentioned above to my number 2 battery and thus charge 1 and 2 (1 selected on rotary) batteries all the time regardless of what the rotary switch is connected to?

would there be any problems if i select batt 2 on the rotary (charging by the battery cable) and also have a charging lead hooked to batt 2 as well?

Sparky......Dale?

the reason i ask is because i would like to charge both at all times but not select "both" on the rotary. i want to keep batt 1 and 2 separate as much as possible and not have to buy any extra gear to do so.

 

[grouperjim]

i don't speak for Parker.........but if you put into context their recommendation to "NOT" select "BOTH" unless individual batts lack the charge to start the engine, then the logic appears to be to get a full charge as quickly as possible on one battery and then isolate the two from each other in case one has a problem that will take the other one down.

Does a Yamaha lack the alternator to charge two batteries? No. It can probably charge a 20 batteries................eventually.

I don't follow the comparison to an unknown diesel pick up truck.

 

[TheOtherLine]

I feel dumb for asking but, I need to replace my batteries. I have a 2000 21CC, dual batts, what type of batt and make do you guys like? I was told to get one deep cycle and one starting...? also, when do you switch from one to the other.

A "Starting" battery generally costs less and may have a higher CCA rating (cranking or MCA, max cranking) rating than a deep cycle.

HOWEVER, there is no reason why you can't use a deep cycle battery to essentially serve as your "starting" battery. As long as you get a deep cycle whose CCA/MCA is at least what the manufacturer calls for in your application.

With all of the electronics we run nowadays, a DC batt, used as a starter, can also have some demand placed upon it, in terms of electronics. In my case, the ONLY other item on my DC "start" battery is the AuX motor power and some green wire that I can't figure out what it goes to. Nothing else.

In mine, it called for minimum CCA of 675 (I think).

I replace my wet cell batteries every two years whether they "take a charge" or not. I, like Kevin and GJ, also now keep one of those battery jumper things on board.....just in case.

 

[Megabyte]

I don't follow the comparison to an unknown diesel pick up truck.

I think that what he is saying is that your basic diesel pickup has two batteries under the hood to light the glow-plugs and crank the high compression motor... but doesn't have a battery switch like our boats have. Even without a battery switch, the electrical system seems to deal with maintaining twin batteries without much of a problem.

Having said that, all of our fire apparatus (even the "small" 1-ton diesels) are equipped with dual batteries and Cole Hersee switches to shut down the electrical system between runs. The big rigs generally have 2 banks of batteries, each bank having a pair of batteries each.

Come to think of it, in 40 years I've never ever selected only battery #1 or battery #2. We always select 'Both'.

Of course, our outboards don't have 200 amp alternators either, so the comparison probably isn't a valid apples to apples one. :wink:

 

[patton]

Thanks, that was a lot of info. Im still confused whether to buy a DC and starting batt or both combo batts?

 

[DaleH]

Thanks, that was a lot of info. Im still confused whether to buy a DC and starting batt or both combo batts?

Personally I'd run both dual-purpose batteries. That's what I've been running for ... > 30-years in twin battery boats, as do all my brothers and friends, and none of us have, or have ever had, any power issues. If such G27s give me all the starting power and such I need for my 25 SC rig, I can't imagine you'd need more in your 21' CC.

That said, as Doug (FishFactory) correctly pointed out, "some" NEWER technology OBs 'may' require more amps or reserve, as WHEN CRANKING they need at least 11VDC to fire up the ECU or electronic control or brain unit, or she just won't fire up. With an older 2-stroke, I've started them with weaker batteries barely making 10.5VDC, but then they too need > 10 to fie up the powerpack to charge the coils. Have even pull-started OBs up to 175hp ... but that's another story (that I sure don't wish to repeat ... ).

EDIT: As we're learning on these boards, there's more than one way to do something and more than a million opinions. One could surely use better capacity, style, and/or brand batteries than what I offer herein as a "minimum" ...

 

[TheOtherLine]

Get two deep cycles, in the correct group and fuhgetaboutit for 2 years. :lol:

 

[greatcir]

Since only the battery selected by my battery switch (#1 or #2) would charge when I ran my engine I was constantly changing the battery switch as I never like to leave it on "both" unless necessary to start my engine. I called Yamaha and they suggested I buy a cable with a built in fuse from them that goes from an unused watertight connection under the engine cowling to one of my batteries - I chose battery #2. Then I set my battery switch on battery #1 which is my house battery.

So now the engine senses the charge on both batteries and charges the lowest one first. It charges battery #1 via the battery cable through the battery switch. It charges battery #2 via the new Yamaha cable I installed. The engine has an isolator built in so that battery # 2 cannot discharge. I now use battery #2 as my standby battery and every once in awhile I use it to start the engine to make sure it is holding charge. I may install dual voltage meters on the console to help my lazy nature so I can see the charging and the discharging. The Yamaha gauge on my boat shows the charging voltage but not which battery is charging.

So now, for the most part, I simply leave my battery switch on #1 and with the new Yamaha cable I know that both batteries are being charged...................Pete

 

[grouperjim]

So now, for the most part, I simply leave my battery switch on #1 and with the new Yamaha cable I know that both batteries are being charged...................Pete

correctomundo..........Pete. with the aux charging wire both batts maintain their charge without having to change the rotary switch, and they remain separate from one another in case of an emergency. if the charging wire is hooked to batt 2 and you select batt 2 on the rotary then the alternator senses the charge from the battery cable and stops charging through the aux charging wire.

if you purchase aux charging wire part from your Yamaha dealer, retail is $74.

 

[greatcir]

Hey Grouperjim thanks for jumping in. Think we might be saying the same thing differently? I did run the Yamaha cable to #2 and keep it as standby. I leave the battery switch on #1 (house). But once in awhile I put the battery switch onto #2 to start the engine so I know it has a charge (insurance check) then I put the battery switch back on #1.

So #1 is charged via the battery cable (battery switch on #1) and #2 by the Yamaha cable so both are being charged when my engine is on but I am only draining #1. Best I know...................Pete