Spring Cleaning Fuel Question

[esfishdoc]

Yes... Spring.

The sun is shining and in two days they say it will hit 66 freeking degrees :lol:

I've got about 10 projects underway to have the boat in the water around the 26th of this month... no later than April 1st.

I was changing my Racor S3213 and it got me a little worried about the fuel I have left in the tank... around 30 gallons.

I last put fuel in around late October. Did I treat it with Stabil.... I don't think so because I figured I'd use the boat a lot more... wound up using it none this winter.

The engine runs fine... starts right up. I've been feeding it local E10.

So the question: Do I drain it and feed my wifes Avalon? Do I drain and pay to have it disposed?

How about restoring it with PRI-G and adding a bunch of fresh high octane?

What would you do? What have you done?

I'm all ears.

Richard

 

[DaleH]

How about restoring it with PRI-G and adding a bunch of fresh high octane?

Rich:

I'm a firm believer in PRI-G and have had SUPERB results (friends did too!) even on 3+ year old MTBE fuel ... but I have not used it for ethanol, which can have it's own host of horrors.

But I think I'd be inclined to use DIESEL formula Startron in a 'shock' ratio, and add some fresh fuel from HIGH-volume source. Just watch your Racor(s) religiously!

I say add "diesel" formula, as it is double the strength of the gas forumla, so you don't need to buy as much or you save 50%, or you get twice as much for your $$, however you look at it. This was confirmed with Startron themselves, see this post here.

 

[TomS]

I would feel better about either option if you could inspect the fuel first -- I'd remove the fuel sender unit (good time to check the connections and see if the gasket needs to be replaced) and peer into the tank with a flashlight. On my boat I can see straight in to the bottom of the tank and see if there is any water or other debris in with the gas.

If it looks good, then I would treat it with something and then add fresh fuel - I'd say the more the better.

-- Tom

 

[esfishdoc]

Thanks Dale.

Tom... you say I can see the fuel... and see water or debris if it there?

I guess that is a reason to go ahead and check it that way. I'm sure that whatever gasket you are talking about will need replacing.. that is the way things are going.

Let me add another question here: Turns out there are two fuel options here on the Eastern Shore that still sell regular non E10 gasoline. ( County Line and Cape Charles Marina.. both at a very decent price) After over a year of using E10 should I: 1. stay away from the real gas. 2. go back to real gas and avoid ethanol 3. Mix and match and hope it all works out.

I'm going to guess that option 3 is not a good option... but very interested in opinions.

Thanks,

Richard

 

[DaleH]

... you say I can see the fuel... and see water or debris if it there?

Water will look like a large BUBBLE on the bottom of the tank, usually at its lowest point, but could be impeded by any in-tank baffeling.

I'm sure that whatever gasket you are talking about will need replacing.. that is the way things are going.

Note senders use a very specific 5-hole bolt pattern that only goes on in ONE orientation, so make witness mark with 'sharpie marker' (you ouught to hear someone from Boston say that fast :shock: !) before removing the flange.

I'd also have some Permatex 2A on hand, or other goop/solvent that's gasoline rated. If your careful, your gasket should be able to be reused too. I goop up and put somewhat snug, but NOT too tight ... allow to curem then snug if possible. Tightening too tight makes a 'dry' joint as all goop gets squeezed out.

... two fuel options here on the Eastern Shore ... should I:

1. stay away from the real gas.
2. go back to real gas and avoid ethanol
3. Mix and match and hope it all works out.

Option 3 is NOT an option in my book. Think about if/when you take a trip on the boat anyway, but I'd probably go E10 and deal with it and be sure. Biggest thing with E10 switchover is when gas was fouled with crap, either from the MTBE source tank(s) [as well as the entire fuel distribution system] that the ethanol scrubbed clean and put into your tank, or from within your old tank itself.

FWIW, my bro's '87 Grady had dual tanks and they were run low as low could be before the E10 switch over, but when E10 "scrubbed" his tanks, he got an awful lot of 'bad cider' as below pic shows. You could pour this stuff on the ground ... smelled like gas ... but it wouldn't light.

 

[TomS]

Yeah, I was just thinking that if you can take a quick look it would be a good idea. If it looks like the pic in Dale's post, then you've got some work ahead of you If it looks clean and with no obvious signs of water or phase separation, then I would treat it and top off with fresh fuel.

I'm not sure how long they will continue to sell (or be able to sell) the non-E10 gas, so since you have already made it through the transition, I would stay with the E-10 gas.

You just don't want to come back a year from now and say that you have 30 gallons of old non-E10 gas in there over the winter, and now they don't sell it anymore, so how do you get rid of it before going back to the E-10, etc..

-- Tom

 

[BradV]

I wouldnt mess with the ethanol. If it gets into the motor and with a single and no other fuel tank options youre done. I had a bad fuel issues with the new boat and it was a nightmare. If you have the option drain it out.

 

[esfishdoc]

I wouldnt mess with the ethanol. If it gets into the motor and with a single and no other fuel tank options youre done. I had a bad fuel issues with the new boat and it was a nightmare. If you have the option drain it out.

I'm already on ethanol. No issues during the transition.

 

[Mokee]

'Cause I tow, I mostly fill boat where truck gets filled which means using gas with 10% ethanol. Had to clean VST filter twice after filling with "marine" gas @ marinas when on trips. I relate VST problem to mixing ethanol and "V" gas.

 

[BradV]

No the ethanol is ok if you run the boat but if it sat for as long as you let it id get rid of it. especially if not treated. I run e10 or less in my boat all the time. But i also run it once a week minimum. Sorry northerners.

 

[atlanticbeach]

I would only use Permatex 2B for the gasket on the fuel tank. Read the label and it will explain why it is the one to use. I routinely remove the sending unit on all my boats and frequently drain the tanks using the Beckson Siphon mate and will completely drain the tank, let it sit for a few days and dry out and then use a shop vac with small vinly hose attached to the normal vaccum hose and suck out all the crap in the tanks and start over for the new season. Just did this to my 21 Parker DV and also to a 21 Viper project boat that my son and I are working on.

You don't even need a new gasket when you use the 2B. That is a non hardening gasket material that is easily removed with light scraping and Acetone when you go back to reinstall the sending unit. Make sure you only tighten the 5 screws with a SCREWDRIVER using your index finger and thumb. Only tighten after letting the Permatex 2B sit for about 10 minutes and then leave it alone and it will never leak. The tanks are only 1/8 inches thick and you can easily strip the 10x32 threads on the tank if you try to overtighten the sending unit.

 

[gray duck]

The whole ethanol thing has to go down as one of the stupidest things that has happened ino our times. And we the people just take it. But a couple of questions: I try to use plain gas at the marina (with a tow boat US 10% discount). If I have to put in some e10, and I have some regular in the tank, won't it be "E5"? I understand the cleaning issues mentioned and maybe that's all it is - avoiding the junk but I thought the ethanol itself was harmful to the actual components of the fuel lines/system so I try to minimize the % ethanol in my tanks. Now it seems like some are saying you can't read from the old and the new testaments at the same time.... What do yall think?

 

[DaleH]

I would only use Permatex 2B for the gasket on the fuel tank. .

Uhhhh on Permatex products, 2A = 2B = 2C ... they're all the same product, just made in different product sizes. So the real answer is - just buy/use Permatex 2 and one will be OK .

 

[Flaff]

The whole ethanol thing has to go down as one of the stupidest things that has happened ino our times. And we the people just take it. But a couple of questions: I try to use plain gas at the marina (with a tow boat US 10% discount). If I have to put in some e10, and I have some regular in the tank, won't it be "E5"? I understand the cleaning issues mentioned and maybe that's all it is - avoiding the junk but I thought the ethanol itself was harmful to the actual components of the fuel lines/system so I try to minimize the % ethanol in my tanks. Now it seems like some are saying you can't read from the old and the new testaments at the same time.... What do yall think?

I'm with Gray Duck & a little confused now also.... With trailering the boat most of the time, I end up having to use E10 as it's hard to find plain gas on the road. While in the Keys for a month or so I use plain gas at the Marina. Am I hearing that I am asking for problems if it's mixed and I have to go back & forth (reading from the old & new testaments at the same time")?? Any suggestions, additives, etc for my 2 types of gas problems? :?

 

[TomS]

Andy,

Either or is fine, but DON'T MIX THEM!

If you do have to switch from one or the other, try to run down whats in the tank as low as possible, then add as much of the other type as you can.

If it were me, I'd pick one that is most readily available and go with it.

-- Tom

 

[atlanticbeach]

Dale is right. I should have noted that the with Permatex, B is the size of the tube.

So do as he says and pick one and use it and all will be good.

 

[MaxOut]

If the fuel has only been in here since October I would top off with high test and run the fuel out. Change your primary filter again and inspect your secondary filter. Re-fill with 89 octane and forget about it. I would fill up at Shell if possible and get their Nitrogen enriched fuel. Believe it or not I have a few trucks that had signs of dirty injectors and started using the Shell fuel and it cleared up? Now that all I use. Your wife's cars engine is similar to your boats and if both fuel injected I think it would be a waste of time transferring. If the fuel is that bad I would transfer it to the dump. Not sure about your boating habits but I can burn 30 gallons on one trip. Go for a day cruise and get rid of it while you are close to shore and you will be fine.

 

[sparky]

Can someone point out any solid info that mixing E10 and E0 is bad? We've done it a hundred times, and have yet to have any trouble. Its just going to mix, and end up with an ethanol concentration between 0 and 10%. Just maintain your filters, fill your tanks in the winter with fuel (and stabilize it), and don't let the boat sit for months with an empty tank. Its not rocket surgery, I promise.

 

[DaleH]

Can someone point out any solid info that mixing E10 and E0 is bad?

I think you missed this! I personally know of DOZENS of boats up on the No shore of Mass to NH that had similar issues. I also towed in 6 or more boats myself. I probably helped others at my boat club install Racors, a good another dozen or more, and we even had to put small Racors on our fleet of 12' skiffs using 8hp outboards.

We've done it a hundred times, and have yet to have any trouble.

You sir, have indeed been lucky :!: !

Its just going to mix, and end up with an ethanol concentration between 0 and 10%.

Until the ethanol phase separates, that is ...

maintain your filters, fill your tanks in the winter with fuel (and stabilize it), and don't let the boat sit for months with an empty tank.

Personally I leave my tank as empty as I can in the Winter layover with zero issues.

All of us, as far as E10 contamination, are subject to the "quality" of the source fuel being delivered. IMHO, 90% of the E10 issues were during the switch-over from the plants, trucks, and other pieces of the fuel distribution system. Ethanol scrubbed clean the crap accumlated over years ... and put them into the fuel. Most cars & trucks could handle it, but many autos has serious issues too.

Its not rocket surgery, I promise.

Nope, but when phase separation strikes YOUR tank ... it's worse :shock: !

To say it isn't a problem just because it hasn't happened to you (yet ...) ..., well, I'll leave it at that ... . Just count your blessings Sparky!

 

[esfishdoc]

I've got a source of containers and I figure I might as well take this opportunity to drain, inspect and just get it done.

If for no other reason I'll be happier (assuming I don't blow myself up in the process!)

Thanks for all the words of wisdom.

Richard