The Sad Saga Continues...

[andertonm]

The new f225 just had its 20 hour check a couple of weeks ago. Seemed to run pretty well afterward ( I still thought it was missing at mid-range), but then the weather forced the boat to sit for about a week. Yesterday, I got in it to drive it to a boatyard that was going to paint the bottom. It's about a ten mile trip. Broad Bay was glassy and I thought it would be fun to open her up with no other lard-butts on board. To my dismay, it was not firing on all 6 and would only pull 5300 RPM. I apologized to the painter (I had waited a long time to get an appointment with this guy) and immediately turned around to take the boat back to the dealer's local service facility. When I called them to tell them I was coming, they told me their "primo" tech had just been transferred down to this facility, so I had hopes that maybe they would finally fix the thing.

Primo, Stu and I took a test drive in the boat. The two techs were standing back in the cockpit while I drove and as we putted through the no-wake zone, I asked if they didn't hear and feel the misfire. They looked at me like I was crazy, so I turned the autopilot on and stepped out of the cabin. Sure enough, you couldn't hear or feel the misfiring. I invited them back into the cabin and in there they could hear the drumming and vibration and see the stuff mounted on the dash vibrating. Interesting phenomenon.

When we got to open water, I let Stu drive and he saw first hand that the motor is very anemic. Back to the shop and I left them speculating about what is wrong. This morning I made my second call to Yamaha support. After I described the current status, I complained about never having any follow-up on my first trouble call weeks ago. They found my history and also told me they had just talked to my techs and had authorized replacement of all of the fuel injectors, all of the filters (which were just changed a week ago at the 20-hour) and something called the vacuum something or other. Sounds like sort of a shotgun approach, but I don't care as long as it works.

Stu blames it on ethanol. He made be right, but then all outboards should be behaving badly, cuz you can't get any non-ethanol gas anymore. I prefer to think it's from launching it on a Friday and taking a woman on the maiden voyage. Makes more sense....

 

[Outta Here]

Sorry to hear of your problems. Sounds like Yamaha is doing what they can.

If the mechanic doesn't think there is a problem, how can he have your best interests at heart? ie. Can't find a problem that doesn't exist.

Rest assured, that motor is whisper quiet at all RPMs, and smooth as silk.

 

[susqking]

I don't know what it is but it's not ethanol. I ran ethanol all last year and have 60 hours this year so far and my F225 run perfect (knock on wood). 570 hours and no issues on a 2002. Hope everything works out soon for you.

 

[coachbob]

I think you hit it on the head--- taking a woman on the maiden trip may have cause a rift in the time continium. Just go out and pay homage to he beer gods and all will be forgiven

 

[Lucky John]

Sorry to hear of your problems. Sounds like Yamaha is doing what they can.

If the mechanic doesn't think there is a problem, how can he have your best interests at heart? ie. Can't find a problem that doesn't exist.

Rest assured, that motor is whisper quiet at all RPMs, and smooth as silk.

I agree 100%.Hopefully a tech with brains will take a look an resolve your problem,if not I hope they replace the engine for you,lemons can be found with any manufacturer.

 

[andertonm]

FishFactory said:

Rest assured, that motor is whisper quiet at all RPMs, and smooth as silk.

I'm really looking forward to experiencing this, because I have great faith in Yamaha and I think they are trying to stand behind their product. Thanks for the support.

 

[esfishdoc]

All I can say is I share your pain and dissappointment with something as great as the combo you have that just isn't acting right.

Hang in there.

Richard

 

[jimikinz]

Please keep us posted. I have a 2003 F200 and I am currently replacing the 4th fuel pump...Yamaha is still trying to say that it is due to ethanol. I upgraded to the larger 10 micron separator, added the newer 10 micron fuel filter, add the additive the the gas that Yamaha sells per the bulletin they sent me, after the second one went, and still go through fuel pumps like money grows on trees.

This is the third pump in the last 50 hours ( about 10 hours from the last one to this one)...and i am about at my witts end. Yamaha will not cover them as factory defects, and I am convinced that there is another problem causing this, but nobody can figure it out.

Any adivise?

 

[Outta Here]

How does ethenol destroy fuel pumps? What state do you buy boat fuel in? Have you seen anything in the motor mounted clear fuel filter?

 

[jimikinz]

I don't know how Ethanol kills fuel pumps....I have a feeling that that is not entirely true. I buy gas in Southern California (san diego) and am sure to go to high-volume stations. I've never seen anything in the motor mounted filter since my initial problems a year ago...at that point, I replaced the filters, added the larger racor, replaced the fuel pumps and the injectors, and drained and re-filled the tank. Since then, I have not seen anything in any of the filters, but have gone through 2 more pumps.

I am at a loss, as I cannot find a mechanic that can say anyting other than it is another "bad fuel pump"......I actually just want rid of it, but I can't even keep it running to sell it....plus I would feel like a heel to give this headache to someone else. I never thought I'd buy a brand new rig like this only to have it end up and a piece of you-know-what.

 

[Claymar]

Couldnt begin to say what the problem might be but I have to agree with Susqking, its not ethanol.

There are hundreds if not thousands of Yamaha motors identical to yours purring like kittens on Southern California ethanol. There is also many many more success stories for every so called ethanol nightmare we hear about. Not only that but there are another countless number of Japenese cars on the road with vertually identical componants, including fuel injectors and fuel pumps, in them also purring away on ehanol

I too find it very hard to believe that ethanol eats fuel pumps.

My grandad used to tell me, if your solution didnt work the first time your not paying much attention if you try the same solution a second time.

 

[Claymar]

Couldnt begin to say what the problem might be but I have to agree with Susqking, its not ethanol.

There are hundreds if not thousands of Yamaha motors identical to yours purring like kittens on Southern California ethanol. There is also many many more success stories for every so called ethanol nightmare we hear about. Not only that but there are another countless number of Japenese cars on the road with vertually identical componants, including fuel injectors and fuel pumps, in them also purring away on ehanol

I too find it very hard to believe that ethanol eats fuel pumps.

My grandad used to tell me, if your solution didnt work the first time your not paying much attention if you try the same solution a second time.

 

[jimikinz]

Yeah, I am right there with you on that.... I just need to find a mechanic that can trouble shoot this.

 

[Claymar]

wow, didnt realize I posted that twice, wasnt that important a poin to make.

 

[andertonm]

I think it's important that we let Parker know when we are having problems with new Yamaha engines. I have posted Robin about my problems - not as a complaint to her, just info. They have chosen Yamaha as their power provider, so they need to know what's going on whether it's an ethanol issue or ????

As an aside, isn't it great that we can communicate with a member of the family that builds our boats?

[email protected] - nice person.

 

[Outta Here]

Yeah, I am right there with you on that.... I just need to find a mechanic that can trouble shoot this.

Would it be worth the effort to send a letter to Yamaha? Document repairs, paid receipts, maybe even gas receipts (easy if you charged gas), RingFree, and filter receipts.

Can you get to a Yamaha mechanic o/s of the one you're using now?

 

[grouperjim]

Mark:

FYI, I enjoy reading your posts.

After reading about your f225 woes, if it were me, I would consider it an opportunity to relinquish ailing f225 back to its crate with a case of lemons for a ride back to nippon land. I'd offer to pay the dealer the difference and hang an f250 on that 2320 which is what it really needs.

jim

 

[DaleH]

Please keep us posted. I have a 2003 F200 and I am currently replacing the 4th fuel pump...Yamaha is still trying to say that it is due to ethanol.

I'd have a sample of your fuel analyzed. FL has had a HUGE problem with E10 fuel being delievered that has had close to 20% ethanol in it. That burned up many fuel pumps on MANY brands of OBs, to the point where in a few weeks period, Yam, Bomb, and Merc all published tech bulletins advising that fuel pumps were NOT covered if the fuel source was deemed to be > 10%.

Turns out some fuel distributors are making E10 fuel by modifying the tank mix of higher percentage ethanol fuels, like E85 and E90. They're guessing ... WHO knows how much ethanol might be in the fuel you're using :shock: ?

Please, keep us all posted ...

 

[andertonm]

Boat partner went today to check on our boat. He felt like the folks there were avoiding him initially, but when he pinned them down, they said they had replaced the injectors and filters, took the boat out on a test run and "it fell on its face." Now they are looking at replacing fuel pump(s). BP pointed out that we were coming up on a big holiday and would really like to get our boat back ASAP. Tech got very defensive at that point and said he would gladly put the boat back in the water right now and cast it off for us. All that tells me is that everybody involved is very frustrated by this situation.

We got on the phone with Yamaha support today just to keep the record going on the issue. Jeff at Yamaha was polite and pointed out they were working with the local techs, but the local guys had talked about fuel contamination, so it might not really be a Yamaha problem. At this point I got a sinking feeling that we might be being abandoned, but I will be patient and let the system work.

Excess ethanol is a very real possibility. Octane enhancers (MTBE) used to be mixed at the refineries and sent through the pipeline to local terminals for delivery to retailers. Ethanol can't be sent through the pipeline because it is corrosive, so it is "splash-blended" at your local terminal and it is a very inexact operation. When I buy a tanker load of gas for my station, I can't buy less than 1000 gallons of any of the three grades, because they can't blend with any level of accuracy in smaller quantities. I received a load of premium (93 octane) that had NO alcohol in it, so it was really 90 octane at best. The state auditor who tested my gas told me this was a problem statewide. Since he was a state guy, I interpreted this to mean its a problem industry-wide. I buy/sell Shell gas that is delivered by a big, professional fleet through a Shell-contracted terminal. I have no idea where my marina is getting their gas and whether it is properly blended. I have only put gas in my new boat twice - once at my station and once at the marina where I keep the boat.

I have searched the internet for ways to check the alcohol content of gas without any luck. Tank sticking paste indicates the presence of alcohol but doesn't tell you the mix...

Bottom line is that the decision to switch to ethanol turned a very stable, dependable product into a chaotic situation with unknown long-term consequences.

 

[andertonm]

Prior to Memorial Day, the dealer replaced all of the injectors on our F225 and all of the filters and some sort of vacuum seperator. The tech said the bill for the injectors alone was $1500. I make a living diagnosing and repairing car problems and I can't imagine few situations in which we would replace all of the injectors. Unless, as somebody noted, Yamaha knows something about the injectors that we don't know.

They loaned us the boat back for the holiday weekend and nothing had changed - rough throughout the range, max RPM 5500. I called Yamaha and stayed very calm as I related the entire story to yet another phone tech. Next day got a call from dealer who asked me to bring boat back in. Under instructions from Yamaha, the tech rode with me and took computer "snapshots" with key on - engine off (no codes), running at no-wake speed, cruising speed, and max RPM. He then sent this data to Yamaha and the Regional Tech is supposed to contact me for the next move.

As an aside, while I was taking the boat to the dealer (1 mile by water), I was listening to AM talk on the boat stereo and there was a lot of raggedy spark noise coming from the radio. Changed RPM and the noise changed, too. Cut off the motor and the noise stopped. I KNOW that this motor should not put out any significant EMI under normal conditions, so I assume it is arcing somewhere. I related this to the mechanic, but he is on Yamaha autopilot now, following their instructions. I have the boat while we are waiting, but I'm afraid that using it in its current state might do more harm.

The bottom line for me is that I no longer trust this motor. It has had a lot of hands in it, changing a lot of parts. Even if they get it running right, I won't venture far from shore.