2005 DF225 Suzuki compared to other brand 225s

[fighterpilot]

Does the 2005 DF 225 Suzuki have more torque than the other brand name 225s, as has been reported for the 250/300 4 stroke Suzukis, hence swing a bigger prop and be quite adequate for a loaded 2520.

 

[warthog5]

No.....It has a Lower gear ratio that allows it to swing the bigger prop.

In fact if you look....Suzzy has the lowest gear ratios of All the manufactures.

It's a combination of the offset driveshaft gearing and the lower unit gear ratio to get to the final gear ratio.


2005 was the 2nd year for the DF 200,225.250

 

[fighterpilot]

Did they make a 4 stroke Suzuki in the 225/250HP range before 2004? I'm looking for an older Parker 2550 and would like a single OB with adequate power to run it. In general do 4 strokes have more thrust capability than 2 strokes, or is it just because of the different gear ratio that the Suzuki performs well. 4 Stroke has some advantages and in my readings have seen good things about the Suzuki 4 stroke and bad things about the early Yamaha 4 stroke. I have read posts on the forum here where the savings with 4 stroke engine was significant, considering fuel cost saving and the big one, oil, for the 2 strokes. Within my budget, 30,000 dollars, I am more likely to find a two strokes in that HP range and have seen some problems with the ficht rudes so am wary of them as well. Everything else being equal, would it be cost effective to pay a little more in order to get a 4 stroke? Trying to find out the good and the bad in the 2 strokes has been a challenge for me, since it can vary not only with brand, but also the model year. Right now I am ruling out the ficht rudes and the early Yamaha 4 strokes. Any links to posts that discuss the good and the bad of the OBs in the 225-300HP range, up to 2005 models would be appreciated.

 

[ParkerJr]

Just trying clear a few thing up... your looking for a 2520? correct? deep v or mod v?, as there is a difference here. As far as Suzuki goes im pretty sure 2004 was the first year for the big block DF 4 cycle series. Warthog 5 knows more than I do about this. I like Suzuki, good match for a Parker as we have a little bit larger beam to length ratio than most boats in the 25 foot class. So, yes I would say you are right on track with thinking Zukes would be a good performer with said lower gear ratio and larger prop diameter/surface area. Watch out on pre 2006 Yamaha F225s/F250s for the exhaust corrosion issues. You have no way of telling if its been corrected unless a dealer or seller can provide the paperwork to prove its been repaired.

As far as the 2 vs 4 stroke deal, This has to be the most over debated topics in the marine industry to date. Don't take this the wrong way but I would say do your research and see what works best for you. As far as im concerned a new age DFI 2 cycle can perform just as well as a 4 cycle engine. Carbureted or EFI not so much. But to put it into some perspective you are still buying oil no matter what engine you have. Period. Most 4 stroke maintenance schedules require 100 hr oil change intervals.(6+ quarts and filter mind you) Now take note that its required to be changed whether that 100 hrs was accumulated idling at 1000 rpms or running wot. 100 hrs is 100hrs plain and simple. Now take your DFI 2 stroke same principle applies, of course your not changing the oil but your still burning it so to speak. If you run it at 1000 rpms for 100hrs you'll probly end up with some stupid ratio like 300:1. Pretty much burning less than the equivalent to a 4 stroke oil capacity of 6 quarts, but run it at wot for 100hrs now you just tripled(if not more) your burn rate. You see it can go both ways. There are so many ways to argue the 2 vs. 4, its hard to describe and cover everything as there is so many makes and models out there. Research and see how your budget looks for purchase and maintenance over the lifetime of your ownership.

Dale, Megabyte, and Warthog all have good discussion threads on these topics so be sure to check them out

 

[fighterpilot]

Thanks for the additional information. Want a MV 2520. The right size and has a pilot house. Closed transom. Want the better stability at anchor vice the better ride underway. We fish the bays and the Gulf but only with 2 foot seas or less. Have to run 24 miles to get to the Gulf and than run out as far as 24 miles to do bottom fishing. Will take the family out for a picnic on one of the bay beaches now and than and run up river for the fireworks display at 4th of July. Keep boat at dock year around but will haul out for bottom work, hurricanes, and motor maintenance. 150 hours a year, or so.

Parker Jr, thought your analysis was most straight forward and bias free which I appreciate. Not that I don't understand a view that has a strong preference, but I'm still trying to learn the outboard world. Had a pair of 200, carbed, rudes once--but other wise the other 3 boats have been all bigger than 25 feet and with diesels. Getting away from the diesel and non trailerable boats. Downsizeing if you will, but not giving up on boating. Thanks

 

[Megabyte]

Good analysis by ParkerJr. 8)

Bottom line, there are thousands of MV 2520's out there with 225 hp power plants that perform well.
So you are really left to the condition of a boat and motor, matching your budget.

A ParkerJr stated, age will determine if a particular 2-stroke motor is carbed, fuel injected, or direct fuel injected.
Examples would be any of the pre-FI brands... Yamaha, Suzuki, Johnson, and Evinrude being the most popular.
I owned a (carbed) Johnson Ocean Pro on my previous boat, and it was stone cold reliable. Did it use more fuel and oil than present technology outboards? Sure it did, but it's pretty much what we all ran at the time, so nobody really complained.

Next up came the FI motors. Carburetors gave way to simple, but effective fuel injection systems.
The 1997 OX66, Saltwater Series II motor on my 2520 is a good example.
Simple and rock solid, but thirstier than what came next which were the DFI motors of which the HDPI Yamaha is an example.

Once 4-stroke motors came into vogue, many people dumped those perfectly good (and lighter) 2-stoke motors and 'upgraded'.
One of the big advantages touted by the manufacturers was that they were cleaner burning, which was true.
But as ParkerJr says, the claims that you "no longer have to buy expensive oil"... are not quite true.

Dyno tests of the Yamaha 225 4-stroke motors weren't really putting out a true 225 horsepower.
And then there were the exhaust corrosion issues...

Whatever you decide to buy, maintenance is the key.
Outboard motors live in a harsh environment and need particular care.
Some people know that, some do not, and some practice what I call "deferred maintenance", just as they do with their daily driver car or truck.

My motor is a 2-stroke which injects and burns oil with the fuel.
I elected to run a full synthetic oil which burns cleaner, giving off very little (if any) smoke, and costs twice what a 'synthetic blend' costs.
Why would I pay for full synthetic when a blend is 'good enough'? It's because I care about maintenance.

I replace my water pump, t-stats, and poppit every 2 years.
Low pressure fuel pumps are replaced every 3 years.
Fresh plugs and a professional tune-up every spring.
I give the motor a freshwater flush after every use.
When I fuel up, I add StaBil, Star*Tron, and Ringfree at a rate of 1 ounce per 10 gallons of fuel. Always.
and... I keep a log and good records.

My point here is that the brand or type of motor hanging on your transom isn't as critical as how it was maintained over its life.
2-stroke, 4-stroke, Yamaha, Suzuki, Johnson/Evinrude, (even Mercury).
Find one that has been maintained, and continue that maintenance, and you will be a happy boat owner.

 

[warthog5]

Did they make a 4 stroke Suzuki in the 225/250HP range before 2004

Nope....The biggest prior to that was the DF-140 and they still sold the DT-200,225's they were 2 stokes.

FYI: We couldn't wait to dump the Carbed 250 yamaha. Once your your go 4 stroke and turn the key.... A big smile will come across your face.

One thing that hasn't been touched in most of all my readings around here is how a pilothouse can catch and hold exhaust. You will really notice it with a smoky 2stroke.

By your numbers....That will be a minum of a 100mi trip. 2mpg = 50gal X $4 + for Nonethonal ...... Well it will be well over $200

By the way..... The DF-300 holds 8.3qts of oil. The Suzuki oil is made by Mystik oil from my research.

 

[fighterpilot]

Megabyte--great analysis of the evolution of the OBs. Most helpful to me, being a neophyte on OBs. I ran a hydrasports 2550 WA one season with twin carb. 200 Johnsons on it, so understand the fuel consumption you noted Warthog. It is a consideration but not a deal breaker- upkeep and performance of a given model and horsepower are important.

We have been diesel for the most part-have the fuel brought in to a tank in my barn where I transfer it to a 100 gallon tank on a trailer, with 12 volt pump, and take it across the road to where the boat is docked and fill the boat there at our own dock. Since we are up in Blackwater Bay, far removed from any fuel station, diesel or gasoline, would like to work something out with gasoline as well. Know that is a different liquid compared to diesel but don't want to have haul the boat to swing by a gas station to fuel up. Can fill up upon returning from the Gulf on the way home but since we will be running the bays without a trip to the Gulf, need a way to refuel that is fairly easy. Am used to a $200 to $300 dollar bill for a fishing trip to the Gulf, just need a way to facilitate spending the money.

Also, want to try to get the best starting point with the boat as far a propulsion is concerned. We pay for tow insurance and I would like single vice twin to minimize future maintenance issues/costs. Am aware of the early Yamahas 4 stroke corrosion issues and the Ficht rude issues, but other than those I am a neophyte. I can appreciate the carb versus fuel injection benefits and your posts just now have added more smarts to me in this regard.
.

Settled on the Parker 2520 for a number of reasons.

Pilot house--some protection from the elements with minimum penalty to use-fishing etc.
Can add RV roof a/c and power with my Honda 2000 gen. and keep me comfortable in the hot summers here, while enroute and while family fishes.

Large enough to be fairly stable in the Gulf-9 and 1/2 foot beam, 25 feet long-don't go if more than 2 foot seas, and can work the bays with their chop etc. Can also run to a beach for picnic etc. Closed transom a must.

Can trailer out for hurricanes and maintenance work. Have good relationship with local OB marine mechanic so the OB wins again.

Thanks for the additional great posts. It is as if you read my mind. FP

 

[warthog5]

Settled on the Parker 2550 for a number of reasons.

Your your numbers... Are you looking for a 2520.....or 2530? There is no 2550.

The 2530 is what I have....aka as Extended pilothouse. Wouldn't have it any other way. Still plenty of room in the cockpit to bottom fish 4 people.

See the aft side window? You don't get that in a 2520. The 2530 has aprox 30in longer pilothouse.

We keep it a Lost Key dry stack. 2mi from the P'cola pass.

 

[fighterpilot]

My error, thanks for pointing it out. 2520 is the number. I'm envious of your 2530 with the big Suzuki on it. Probably the optimum configuration for my purposes but I can't afford that combination. I'll have to settle for the smaller sister, the 2520 with a 225 Suzuki on it, if I can find one 30,000 or less. Thanks

 

[warthog5]

I would not put any less than a 250 on a 2520....Believe me it's a LOT of boat. Because it's a lot of boat it also lends itself to accumulating a lot of gear.

Bottom line........It needs the power to push this boat.

Think about when you really need it. Coming in P'Cola pass......Out going tide....Wind coming out of the South. Those waves stack up and you need the power to forge ahead.

 

[fighterpilot]

250HP was my minimum number, but what if I find a 2520 with a 2005 225 4 stroke Suzuki on it? Should I pass? Thanks

 

[fighterpilot]

Well, I have made an offer on a 2520 with a 2005 Suzuki DF225HP on it. Been searching posts since my Oct. post and decided I might get along with 225Hp based on what I have read. Thanks

 

[ctown67]

You will be satisfied with a 225 i take a number of trips loaded down every year with my crew. 4 guys 70 miles with kayaks and camping gear or the same bunch a 100 miles with dive gear. Full gas, fresh water tank full, tons of beer, and gear. It never disappoints, planes the same, and runs 28 all day and sometimes all night.

 

[fighterpilot]

Good to hear. Your are loaded down when you leave the dock. Bet you have trim tabs however. The broker trying to convince me trim tabs are needed. When I referenced this forum she laughed--and said you believe what you read on a forum. Anyway, didn't even bother to sea trial it. Boat was pretty rough. Trailer brakes completely corroded away and hadn't been used in years. Broker tried to convince me didn't need brakes. "They are hauled around all the time without them. Inside the cabin lots of moisture. Rust on all the bolts and nuts showing. When I ran my hand over the felt type wall covering it "snowed" with material breaking loose. What I was willing to pay and what they would accept was a few thousand apart so I moved my flight up and beat the weather and holiday rush home.

Now expanding my search, maybe I can't afford a "decent' Parker with "decent" power. Considering the Pro-Line 251 with the OptiMax 225. Know this is Parker forum, but before you got your Parker did any of you run the Pro-Line Boat I mentioned? If so what are you thoughts on it and the power plant? Thanks

 

[camron]

What was the price on this boat? There may be one for sale within you budget that someone on here may have or know of for sale.

Camron

 

[fighterpilot]

They were asking 27900. Contract before actual seeing the boat was 25000.

 

[camron]

I saw a nice looking one on Long Island Craigslist for 17k. 2520 1995 hull with a 2000 250hp yamaha ox66 looked clean. Here is the link if your interested


http://longisland.craigslist.org/boa/4171812130.html

 

[warthog5]

When I ran my hand over the felt type wall covering it "snowed" with material breaking loose.

FYI: That is commonly refereed to as "Monkey fur". Don't know why? That name just stuck and a Lot of people use it.