2120 Deck Repair

[Drop top chicken box]

Ive got the deck all cut out, ground down the edges of the existing material and now i need to purchase materials for the repair work.

I hadnt even thought about this potential issue but when i was searching for materials i came across discussion of epoxy and gelcoat not being as compatible as polyester resin and gelcoat? Are Parkers made with polyester resin vs epoxy on the decks? My deck is definetly gelcoat at least i think it is, its original to the boat.

I dont have any local suppliers or sources of information so im relying a lot on this site to help me out with my repair. Im finding it very difficult to find information on this type of work, or at least definitive answers as to what is the right method/ materials.

Questions i have:

1. is there a certain fiberglass cloth i should use on the deck?
2. should i plan to do more than one layer? I assume the more then better for strength, im thinking 2-3 layers
3. im imagining that following glassing im going to need a fairing material before gelcoat or painting, which material should be used? Bondo?
4. I plan on painting as the final step to blend in the new and old areas of the deck so should i just omit the gelcoat? I do want the deck to be very durable and i want to do the best job possible for myself and the potential owner after myself.

Not that cost doesnt enter into the equation but i do like to do things the proper way and with longevity in mind, best practice would be the plan.

 

[mheltunen]

I’ve used total boat 2 part fairing compound with good success. Early in the fairing process you can mix micro balloons in with resin for fairing as well. That’s the sequence I used on my roof. I used epoxy resin but if considering gelcoat I’d avoid it. Gel does not bond well to epoxy. Good luck and post pics


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[mheltunen]

I used this company for my epoxy resin and material (excluding plywood) : https://www.boatbuildercentral.com/#

They are very helpful. Just give them a call and explain what your doing. They will offer some good recommendations.


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[warthog5]

Epoxy sticks well to everything.

But Polyester does Not stick well to epoxy.


Soooo...If you use Polyester or Vinalester resign.....You can Gellcoat it or Paint it.

If you use Epoxy resign....Then It's paint only.

 

[warthog5]

So Chicken box.....What are you doing there? Did you remove the tank?

I know you talked about cracks....But the tank is exposed....Pull it....inspect it....Coal Tar epoxy it...Your RIGHT there!

I see you have bought some new fancy tools.

Your going to need to going back farther. You need to grind a ditch so to speak on the edge of the old and new panel....About 3in to 4in wide total...1/2 on each piece.......Use a layer of 1708 Biaxle.....You can buy it as tape in 3in or 4in wide.....No it's not sticky. Then a layer of 3/4oz mat .

Then wipe it in for fairing with Evercoat's Formula 27 fairing compound.

This is predicated on you doing this in Polyester.....You boat was built with Polyester.


I've spread and mixed a LOT of epoxy......60+ gals...from different manufactures. I'd do this in Polyester.

 

[Brent]

It doesn’t look like a new tank was installed and the foam was removed to dry out the area. Keep posting.


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[Drop top chicken box]

Pulled the tank, glad i did there is pitting in a few small areas but they are deep enough that its worth a new tank. Ill order the same one from RDS unless someone has another suggestion?

Bad news is that the plywood is wet basically everywhere, most of it has not separated from the fiberglass but its wet and drying it out from what ive read here and other places is not really possible unless you have months of time and a warm heated storage area. Any suggestions?

One are that the glass has popped off the plywood is right where the fuel fill and vent lines penetrated the stringer. This spot is my main concern right now. I feel as though the rest of the plywood is solid and it definetly isnt rotted, just wet.

I want to fix this properly but i cant tear anymore of the boat apart, the project is mushrooming quickly.

I am contemplating sistering a large length of plywood alongside the worst area and bonding this with epoxy then glassing the two together to form a beefed up section of stringer.

Any thoughts?

Also i have no interest in re-installing foam, this was the main cause of the problem in my opinion, is there any reason that this is a bad idea? Other than its floatation properties is it necessary.

If i dont use foam for tank support is there a next best option?

Parker by the way is not worth calling or emailing, zero response.

 

[Brent]

Foam adds support and top foam can be sealed


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[Brent]

You can ask the tank builder but the tabs on tank are for mounting and securing but can not handle 800 lbs plus of gas moving around.

Someone on FB, I don’t recall the page, used braces on sides and bottom. He didn’t like foam either and did his way.

Warthog secured the tank and used a specific foam density and top was covered cloth and resin. I am paraphrasing but he did it better. m2cw


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[warthog5]

bare alum on it's own....will create a protective layer...It does this when it's exposed to air.

Advance forward....When foam is up against bare alum....and is saturated with water...no air is present.

Then the alum doesn't get that self healing layer and why it corrodes.

So....The foam is used as flotation......AND Support for the tank.

The problem comes when you have a leak that allows water in.....Crappy deck plate....crack in deck....leak around fill port ?

So we work hard to protect that alum...IF it were to get a leak.

The fix is.....2 coats of Coal Tar Epoxy..... Lag bolt the tank in....Use 4lb density foam.....Trim the foam flush with the top of the tank....Then bridge that foam from the stringer over the top edge of the tank.....No water can enter.....and if for some reason it does......The coal Tar epoxy will not let it get to the alum.



100gal tank.....1/8 in tab of alum in 4 places...lag bolted with 5/16 lag bolt....Tank is full of fuel....It now weighs 650+ pounds.

Will those 4 lag bolts keep the tank in place when the boat is crashing thru waves?

Wanna take the chance?


If you do it my way..document it with pix's....It will pay back in the resale.

 

[Drop top chicken box]

Some progress pics

3/4" Fir Marine Plywood by Rosenberg

I have not been able to locate any tank that will fit my compartment not made out of aluminum so im going to go with the same unit from RDS

I plan on installing a flat piece of glassed plywood to rest the base of the tank on in the center of the hull. I will install hard plastic strips to the bottom of the tank with 5200 to provide air space around the tank, no foam will touch the tank. Side to side support solution is still something i havent figured out exactly.

I do not plan to coat tank, ive read up on a lot of the arguments for and against and i have decided bare aluminum with airflow is the best option.

Any suggestions of what material is best to apply to tank as a spacer would be appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[warthog5]

Nice Work.

Now here is my suggestion to make things Clean and Easy.

Remove the panels....Take them in the sop and lay flat.....Put a layer of glass on each side while they are flat.

This gets you off your knees some....Then install them in the boat....Use 6in wide Biaxale 45/45 to tab it all in with a 3in overlap....

 

[Drop top chicken box]

I have Mat and 1708 glass with mat stitched to one side and vinylester resin as well as bonding putty for adhering to old remaining glass.

I wet out the existing glass and new rear bulkhead before mixing bonding putty troweling that on and clamping in place overnight. Evertyhing seems really solid,couple hollow spots but ill inject some resin in there to fill in.

The bonding putty is tricky to work with, hard to measure out qty and mix quickly, then troweling on with a v notch trowel all within working window of the material and the resin already applied to the other surfaces. Challenging to do alone ill tell you that.

I want to work flat as much as possible but my understanding is the layers need to all be done at the same time for a proper bond. Otherwise roughing up of surfaces is necessary. This is what supplier told me anyway. Id like to avoid sanding but also having a hard time with the thought of glassing vertical surfaces.

How many layers of CSM and 1708 should i be shooting for? I am thinking CSM first then tab in with more CSM then full layer of 1708, is that enough for stringers and bulkheads? Multiple layers of the 1708 needed?

Any thoughts on how to best seal up the area where that bilge pipe goes through the bulkhead? At the last minute i chopped out the wood in that area thinking i could improve on just having wood in such a vulnerable spot. I made a solid block of resin reinforced with csm, i was thinking id glass that right in there with thickened resin, that would be water tight no?

 

[warthog5]

Well see now you have backed yourself in a corner......

how are you going to glass the backside of that of that Bulkhead where you have what? 1 1/2in of clearance?

Using "Laminating resign" no need to sand. It's made to do just that laminate another layer after the first layer has gotten hard.

You want to create fillets with resign putty at the joints. I use a piece of fiberglass about 3/16in thick.....I cut a circle out of it with a 2in holesaw......sand the edges to a radius and then bolt it to a heavy paint paddle for a handle......This makes a nice radius tool.

1708 designates it is 17oz +/45/-45 and 3/4oz chop strand mat that is stitched to it.

1700 designates it is just 17oz 45/45

Put the 1708 down first then add a additional 6in strip of 1708 to joints.....Then 3/4oz mat.

 

[Drop top chicken box]

warthog, all of the existing glass aft of the bulkhead was left in place and i laminated to it so there is no need for me to work in that tight space that i left. There were huge voids left by the builders which i filled with bonding putty so i think thats an improvement.

I laminated to the glass by wetting out the existing glass that remained ( which was all of the original material less the "cap" they put over the original plywood) and wetting out the new plywood before mixing bonding putty and troweling that on evenly with a v notch trowel and clamped. This set up really solid with only 2-3 small hollows that i will inject with resin.

One more thing, it would seem to me that the layers of mat tabbing and subsequent 1708 should start out small and increase in size so that the chances of one layer failing leading to the entire assembly failing would be a wise move? Stepping the materials to allow each to bond to the hull independent in case one had a bad bond.

If im reading correctly your suggesting a large full layer first with smaller reinforcing layers following?

Supplier gave me 1.5 oz mat after discussing project with them, im thinking heavier cant really be a bad thing in this case?

Im new at this so im just asking so i can learn.

 

[warthog5]

sorry.....I did mean 1.5oz mat......Not 3/4oz.

laminate schedule = 1708 then 1.5oz.

 

[Drop top chicken box]

A few progress pics

I filled the stringer void left by the removal of wet wood and laminated a full length new stringer alongside of that. I stepped the stringer height down to allow for tabbing at the top so that everything is tied in top and bottom. Wet all surfaces and used bonding putty to laminate onto the existing glass that i left in place and between the new to old and new to new wood and then 1708 to glass the whole assembly together and into the hull and bulkheads.

I removed the drainage pipe connecting the front compartment to the rear. I cannot see any need for this at all, both compartments have pumps. It was a bit of an afterthought, thats the reason for the patch instead of just cutting bulkhead accordingly. I made a casting to fill the void so at least that portion is not immediately at risk of rot.

I replaced the 4" PVC used to route the fuel/ vent lines, I GLUED THE JOINTS THIS TIME AROUND! Sore subject for me. I believe this was one of the main reasons for all of the wet foam/ wood and its just such a simple step that was not done. I really hope my boat was the exception.

As you can see i made a hollow in the bottom of the bulkhead ahead of the fuel tank, this is to allow access to any condensation or water that could collect in that compartment as well as air flow. I plan to install a deck plate or hatch in the center compartment. I may use the area for trolling motor batteries if the weight distribution works otherwise it can remain empty for storage. In either case i can see if there's moisture and deal with it vs a sealed compartment that can never be accessed until there is a problem or perceived concern.

The fuel tank is shipping next week and that will be mounted to allow air flow on all sides. This will be a challenge but i think i have it figured out. If my plan works well enough i think it could be a good install method to follow. Fingers crossed my plan will come together.

 

[Brent]

You are definitely getting it done


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[Ron t]

Good morning, I’m enjoying your posts and Warts advice. I have a 2017 2120 and am curious about something. Parker states that the stringer grid and bulkheads are fully incapsulated in fiberglass and therefore rot proof, from the pics it seems the stringers and bulkheads are only tabed on the bottom with one layer of 1708. Wart, can you explain and advise what Parker’s layup schedule is on current builds. Thanks,

 

[Drop top chicken box]

This is my first experience opening up a fiberglass boat and the forensics associated with identifying the problems and then dealing with the repairs so im by no means an expert but I have been building/ repairing things my whole life.

As with many things the devil is in the details. I dont know if they build parkers differently now than they did in 2002 but i suppose wood that is encapsulated in heavy glass and if the wood never sees water it would probably be rot proof. Simply making a wood grid and heavily glassing it without wetting out the wood and filleting the wood to hull joints wouldnt be a best practice.

The issues im seeing arose from a few things that i listed in the above post. Unfortunately they were all easily preventable in my opinion.