23DV: 12x24 Tabs vs. Permatrim/Side by Side Comparison

[grouperjim]

No problemo amigo. We'll see how it works out. I ordered a Perma yesterday.

jim

 

[grouperjim]

Willaim:

Got the Perma installed today. Will try the Mirage 19p 3 blade tomorrow. I will let you know about the rev 4 17p tomorrow night. I don't know about B-man's prop, but mine is like new and I paid $479 for it. So we'll see how it works out.

I've got the everything you need to bolt it on and go.

jim

 

[TheOtherLine]

I dunno..... cutting holes in fiberglass is one thing. Cutting into the cavitation plate???? I hear the mantra of one of our fellow CP'ers..
"Step away from the drill" :?

 

[grouperjim]

Zoom, zooom, zoooom----that was the best bang for the buck right there.

Scoops, I have reputation-----I never hesitate to do a project if I can read about here on CP. Especially if it involves a Sawzall or drilling holes.

jim

 

[TheOtherLine]

Zoom, zooom, zoooom----that was the best bang for the buck right there.jim

OK. So tell me what you are getting now, that you weren't getting before, with your new PermaTrim and 3 blade, 19 pitch prop. Also, any comments on what this new setup might mean to a mod v hull, running a 250hp.

I have the Mirage 4x17. Had the stock Yammi 3 blade. I lost about 200 rpm at WOT and stay on plane at lower rpms. Although, it could be that I wasn't trimming the motor up as much as I am now. Who knows, I might have just as well off keeping the stock prop with proper trim, but I LOVE projects.

If I understand it correctly, every time you go up in pitch you lose RPM right?

 

[grouperjim]

Yes, to the prop pitch question assuming the diameter stays the same. You lose rpms because the engine is working harder to spin a more aggresive prop. If you make the engine work too hard, it won't break in properly and will shorten the service life of the motor in the long run.

I don't know how a Perma would effect a Mod V boat. Your deadrise at the stern is shallow and already provides an ample amount of lift. Regardless, the Perma will change the pitch axis of any boat. So who knows. I think your boat is pretty sweat as she sits. Besides upgrading the windlass, anchor roller and anchor (get a Delta), I don't think there is much more to do on your sled.

jim

 

[Porkchunker]

I'm surprised the Permatrim goes on top of the anti-cavitation plate. Have heard that top-mounting can break the plate. The Cobra plates I mounted go on the underside, and use the surface of the plate for support. Top-mounting, puts a lot of stress on the bolt areas.

 

[grouperjim]

I just followed the instructions. On the flip side, mounting it on top creates less drag/disturbance underneath around the prop. see the pic---very smooth under there.

Went out today during a passing front so went through many changes in sea conditions. What a difference in ride quality. I used to have a 28 w/twin f225. By adding the Perma 5 feet further aft of the stern, my 23 rides very similar to my old 28 footer. It's almost like buying 5 more feet of boat for $135.

Parker should offer the Perma as an option. I love it. Other than getting used to looking at it and banging my knee on it a couple of times, I don't see any downside to it at all.

jim

 

[sniperman]

So do you think you really need to have the bigger trim tabs now that you have the permatrim?

 

[grouperjim]

No. My friend's 2320 that we did the comparison with has the factory Lenco 12x12s. He is perfectly happy with them now that he has the Perma. He uses them only to level the boat side to side. Engine trim w/Perma handles the bow. IMO Parker could alleviate most of the complaints about the 12x12 tabs if the Perma was factory option.

I still like my big boy tabs but if I had gotten the Perma first I probably would have saved the $$ and effort.

FYI: For anyone who decides to install one, a right hand drill or flex drill is a must for the second hole from the front. Other than that buy some 3/4 inch blue painters tape to help with the lay out and it is easy drilling. Use black 5200, it looks better than the white. And don't forget the 3M 5200 adhesive remover.

jim

 

[sniperman]

Did you purchase the permatrim in the yamaha color or did you paint that yourself?
Is they're any effect on your yamaha warranty?

What is the website you ordered from too, thanx?

One more thing, can you show us a side view of that permatrim on the motor to see how far that sticks out and also a picture of the whole side of the boat.

Thanx again

 

[grouperjim]

They will send it to you in a matching color. I think it is powder coated. Not sure though.

Here are the only other pics I took. Don't have a pic of the whole side of the boat due to where I keep it and not being able to stand far enough away to get the shot.

You can Google www.shipyardisland.com to order one. Also on page one of this topic is a link to the installation instructions complete with more pics of a completed install.

jim

 

[sniperman]

Grouperjim,
Do you feel this boat rides better than your 23 center console now, or did the center console 23 ride better or drier.
I ask because i am in the market but am stuck between the center console or the pilothouse, and did you need the permatrim on the center console?

I live in tampa no to far from you in st.pete.

 

[grouperjim]

Sniperman:

If you have not had a ride on a 23PH then come on over. I'm actually going out this afternoon about 1pm at War Veterans next to the VA. Sat and Sun are house project days.

As far as I am concerned, there is no better value, ride, or otherwise more capable boat than the 23CC DV. I think it is the best boat in its class. A friend of mine had a new 24 Grady White and then went to the Parker 23CC DV and he and I both gave the Parker an edge over the Grady. The Parker seemed to be more durable, about the same ride, and did not develop spider cracks like the Grady. Plus Parker is 3 piece hull.

Which boat is better between the PH and the CCDV. Well that depends. They are both the same exact hull. The PH has about 500 lb or so more weight and the gas tank is a few inches further aft than the CC. So as far as weight and balance goes, the CC actually has a little more weight aft.

If sun exposure and a family containment were not an issue, hands down, I would go with the CCDV. The ride/dryness factor is pretty much the same, except in the PH you are riding so much further forward on the pitch moment of the boat, that you need to slow down in certain seas. On a CC it would be like trying to ride in rough seas on the seat in front of the console, which of course people move to the back for a smoother ride.

I absolutely love my PH, there is no dryer ride than a PH, I have never gotten a drop of water on me.

Another big factor I think, is that the PH style boat appeals to sort of a niche market. Mostly up north and out west where the water is so cold. The resale value of the 23DVCC is unbelievable. The PH resale in FL appeals to less people, unless one of our northern friends is willing to drive down and get it. The latter concern doesn't matter to me because my 23PH is my last boat. A new boat would also entail a new wife.

As far as a Perma on a 23CC, I don't know anyone who has done that yet, although I am sure someone has. If I still had my CC, I would definitely do it, in a heartbeat.

jim

 

[sniperman]

Sniperman:

If you have not had a ride on a 23PH then come on over. I'm actually going out this afternoon about 1pm at War Veterans next to the VA. xxx-yyy-zzzz. Sat and Sun are house project days.

As far as I am concerned, there is no better value, ride, or otherwise more capable boat than the 23CC DV. I think it is the best boat in its class. A friend of mine had a new 24 Grady White and then went to the Parker 23CC DV and he and I both gave the Parker an edge over the Grady. The Parker seemed to be more durable, about the same ride, and did not develop spider cracks like the Grady. Plus Parker is 3 piece hull.

Which boat is better between the PH and the CCDV. Well that depends. They are both the same exact hull. The PH has about 500 lb or so more weight and the gas tank is a few inches further aft than the CC. So as far as weight and balance goes, the CC actually has a little more weight aft.

If sun exposure and a family containment were not an issue, hands down, I would go with the CCDV. The ride/dryness factor is pretty much the same, except in the PH you are riding so much further forward on the pitch moment of the boat, that you need to slow down in certain seas. On a CC it would be like trying to ride in rough seas on the seat in front of the console, which of course people move to the back for a smoother ride.

I absolutely love my PH, there is no dryer ride than a PH, I have never gotten a drop of water on me.

Another big factor I think, is that the PH style boat appeals to sort of a niche market. Mostly up north and out west where the water is so cold. The resale value of the 23DVCC is unbelievable. The PH resale in FL appeals to less people, unless one of our northern friends is willing to drive down and get it. The latter concern doesn't matter to me because my 23PH is my last boat. A new boat would also entail a new wife.

As far as a Perma on a 23CC, I don't know anyone who has done that yet, although I am sure someone has. If I still had my CC, I would definitely do it, in a heartbeat.

jim

I can't believe i missed out on this ride. I was working all day and just got the computer. Especially in today's conditions would have been a nice sea trial.
I am licensed hvac contractor in business for myself so hours are very unpredictable but i will make the time next time i know.

I hope i can take you up on this offer again in the near future, maybe do some bottom fishing, i would be glad to chip in gas, ice, bait whatever. I have been fishing offshore since i was 10years old in the gulf with my dad. I am 36 now.

I am also a licensed master captain 50 gross tons and sold my boat a year ago 32' intrepid. I miss the boat but not the payments and upkeep.
So i am getting the itch again. But will like to definitely downsize to maybe the pilot house. Your boat look's awesome. My phone is aaa-bbb-cccc any time you need an extra on the boat would love too.

Thanx
John

 

[grouperjim]

Next time. Got your number.

jim

 

[Outta Here]

Seems like Sniperman should be invited to Keys Parker event. Seatrial both Parkers side-by-side.

 

[grouperjim]

Works for me. Are you coming?

jim

 

[Outta Here]

Works for me. Are you coming?

jim

Admiral and I will be in Islamorada end of January. There is a slim, slim, chance I can go again in March IF there's still room "at the inn", IF my work's slow, and IF you still have room in the "grouperjim towmobile"

 

[TheOtherLine]

Seems like Sniperman should be invited to Keys Parker event. Seatrial both Parkers side-by-side.

PM Sent.