Capsizing Concerns???

[captmccadie]

I have had a 2520 Deep V for about 5 months now. It's my first boat of this design, so a few of the things about it are a little different than I am used to. My biggest concern is that when I go down sea and get turned at a 45 degree angle to the wave it feels as though the boat wants to "surf" the wave and I hate to say it but it feels very much like it has the potental for capsizing. I was out today in about 4 foot seas and traveled down sea for 15 miles. It was incredibly stressfull and I had to go quite slow.

I'm just looking to see if anyone out there has had an issue with this hull actually going all the way over while riding down a wave. If no one has ever had it happen then I guess I am just a whimp. But if there are some documented cases of it then I need to be more cautious I think.

Thanks for the help,

Brian

PS. I hope this has never happened to anyone!!!

 

[miky2884]

The boat wont capsize in 4 foot waves.
Did you try adjust the trim tabs ?

 

[captmccadie]

It's nothing to do with the trim tabs. It's when the boat gets surfing down the front side of the wave and uncontrollably turns at an angle, then when it hits the bottom of the trough it stops and the breaking wave that you were riding pushes agianst your side adding to the momentum that the boat already has in a manner which is turning it over on it's side.

Bare in mind that a 4 foot wave it 8 feet from top of the crest to the bottom of the trough. That's a long ride down in a 25 foot boat. The tops of the waves were higher than the roof of the cabin on the boat.

Thanks for the help though!

 

[DaleH]

Even with my mod-V 25, I too find it a tad 'squirrely' in a down sea and find you not only need to adjust your speed and vary it to the slope of the sea state but run with he bow high. And sometime I do find I need to zig-zag and even a little angle makes a huge difference!

 

[captmccadie]

Ok. Thanks for the info. Have you ever felt like you were actually close to going over? I might just be paranoid... and I hope that's the case.

Brian

 

[markman03]

I only have a 2110 but I know exactly what you mean. I was out about 20 miles and the seas turned. I road in like Dale suggested. Varying my speed and used a zig zag pattern. It was a little hairy but I wasn't concerned.

 

[windknotnc]

A couple points you made make me think. You mention "breaking wave" and "surfing down the face". As one who used to surf and now limit my wave activities to those in the boat I immediately think you are describing coming in an inlet or in some shallowing water situation. For a 4' wave (8' amplitude) to produce that amount of energy it has to be in an area where the bottom of the wave is moving slower than the top, hence breaking. This only occurs in shallow water or in a very high wind driven surface. I have been on many different boats and have experienced the "surfing" feeling and the grab where the stern feels like it is going to push parallel to the wave. Usually this is managed, as Dale says, by keeping the bow high and throttle feeling. In these cases it requires complete attention at the helm and throttle. Can you tell us more about the conditions and location you experienced this?

 

[DaleH]

It's nothing to do with the trim tabs. It's when the boat gets surfing down the front side of the wave and uncontrollably turns at an angle, then when it hits the bottom of the trough it stops and the breaking wave that you were riding pushes agianst your side adding to the momentum that the boat already has in a manner which is turning it over on it's side.

Uhhhhhhhmmmmmm ... it is EXACTLY in conditions like that when you should NOT drop your tabs, as that will only make the situation worse! You are quite correct it the force of the wave to the rear, but you don't it to grab those tabs ... more than the wave would otherwise ....

 

[Phil]

Yep, it's the dymamics of a wave. The top of the wave increases speed before it breaks as the bottom of the wave slows down. If the stern of the boat is near the top, you get that squirly feeling. The solution is simple. More power Mr. Scotty! Go straight down seas. Zig zagging only gives the wave a chance to push the stern beam to--the same with the tabs down. (You zig zag into head seas while on plane to reduce the pounding.) All small boats are susceptible to capsizing but I can honestly say that I have never met a following seas I didn't like--and I've in following seas bigger than true 4' to 6's.

 

[captmccadie]

As for the conditions, I fish out of Islamorada Fl. We don't have any inlets, but the wind was blowing 20ish out of the East, which should make the seas on the reef about 3 feet. I was only in 50 feet of water. Unfortunately, the current was running straight into the wind at about 5 knots, as the gulf stream was pushed way inshore (not tidal current at all). This stiff current was the reason for the tops blowing off the waves and the waves to be very steep, not nice comfy swells. I have been chartering here for 12 years, but this is the smallest boat I have ever ran, so I am learning a whole new world. The boats I have previously ran would barely have felt these conditions.

This is why I mentioned that I might just be paranoid. I am in a totally new situation on the water where I am impacted by the seas much more than before.

Thanks for all the help,

Brian

 

[grouperjim]

I boat out of the "Rock" frequently in my 23DV PH. I have also made the crossing over to Bimini and had a northeast wind kick up out of nowhere so i am familiar with the steep wave conditions you refer to. I wouldn't even attempt to quarter steep waves the size you mention.

For a hull this size in those conditions it would be directly down sea or into a head sea. The best thing in Isla would be to beat feet for the inside.

Now in 3-4ft following seas I'll surf them at a pretty good clip and then straighten up at the bottom. With engine trimmed up and tabs off, the carolina flare of the hull will cause the front to rise nicely up the back of the next wave if you give it some gas. I have owned some boats that would plow into the backs of waves in a following sea and soak everyone. I have fished many Parkers and have owned 2 and feel the Parker is one of the best and driest hulls in a following sea. You have to be responsive and somewhat aggressive with the throttles. You have to learn to trust that the bow WILL rise. I have never felt as if the hull was going to pitchpole.

Knowing how to surf helps too. :wink:

FWIW how you load the boat can also make a big difference in handling.

.....ouch, that's going to leave a mark 49). :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDhwlomKUyM

 

[Phil]

Similar to what Jim said, in big following seas, the strategy is to stay on the back of the wave about 2/3 from the top. But since the engine is pushing forward in what essentially is a forward conveyor belt of water, you will enventually go over the top at which point you will feel an increase in speed. Then you will feel a slowing down and a wallow as you near the bottom. At this point you want to increase the throtle and catch up to the back of the next wave and start over. What you don't want to do is let the wave in back of you to break over your stern.

edit: should read 2/3 near the top

 

[ParkerJr]

In a big following sea I usually drop the trim tabs 1-2 light bars on my Lenco indicator tab switch. I think this gives you a little bit more running surface, I also trim the motors up a considerable amount to keep the bow up. Parkers have a tendancy to spear the backsides of big waves. They also have a nice wide beam which gives you the stability to navigate in conditions such as you describe and I think you will find it hard to actually capsize.

 

[MARKW432156]

I run a 2320 and running at cruise speed in a heavy close together beam sea to following sea I have experienced on occassion my boat rolling more onto its side than normal into a wave to the point it was uncomfortable as the wave reached the boat and then passed.

It was uncomfortable, but there is no way the boat was going to "roll over'.

Each time this has occurred I have adjusted my speed down and added more down trim and all was well for the remainder of the ride.

 

[Micheal J]

I boat out of the "Rock" frequently in my 23DV PH. I have also made the crossing over to Bimini and had a northeast wind kick up out of nowhere so i am familiar with the steep wave conditions you refer to. I wouldn't even attempt to quarter steep waves the size you mention.

For a hull this size in those conditions it would be directly down sea or into a head sea. The best thing in Isla would be to beat feet for the inside.

Now in 3-4ft following seas I'll surf them at a pretty good clip and then straighten up at the bottom. With engine trimmed up and tabs off, the carolina flare of the hull will cause the front to rise nicely up the back of the next wave if you give it some gas. I have owned some boats that would plow into the backs of waves in a following sea and soak everyone. I have fished many Parkers and have owned 2 and feel the Parker is one of the best and driest hulls in a following sea. You have to be responsive and somewhat aggressive with the throttles. You have to learn to trust that the bow WILL rise. I have never felt as if the hull was going to pitchpole.

Knowing how to surf helps too. :wink:

FWIW how you load the boat can also make a big difference in handling.

.....ouch, that's going to leave a mark 49). :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDhwlomKUyM

Yes! This X2!
2120 FULL of dive gear and fish and bugs. Get the bow up,and on the gas...off the gas.

Done this too many times to want to think about it.

My stompin grounds are the Northern Channel Islands here in Cali.
Have fun.You'll figure it out.
MJ.

 

[Phil]

Speaking of capsizing, I find it ironic that if the go-fast trips/quads cc's capsize, they would go straight down to the bottom just as fast. While my lowly single engine Parker would float like a dead whale allowing me to climb on the back and await rescue.

 

[Phil]

Case in point: http://www.sportfishermen.com/board/f18 ... 80200.html

I saw these guys leaving Scituate harbor in the morning of the sinking. This was a 31' Fountain with twins. Most CC's are ass heavy with the multiple outboard, engine bracket, and in transom above deck livewells. When they turn turtle, the ass sinks letting out any air the would be trapped in the hull. Straight to the bottom it goes...

 

[Inching Irishman]

DaleH and I navigate the inlet of the Merrimack River to return to our moorings/slips and we encounter these conditions often. You have eliminate the tabs and avoid being caught in the trough by getting back on the gas and climbing the next wave before the one you just climbed catches up. Gas to the top, surf down with gas backed off, back on the gas in the trough to the next top.

2520 xl with modified V