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Porkchunker

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Since the topic of heaters came up, I thought I'd start a discussion about cold weather boating. Being an old U.S. Army Ranger, I have some first-hand experience with hypothermia and the training associated with countering its effects.

Each winter, I spend a lot of time at the Chesapeake Bay-Bridge-Tunnel (CBBT) complex at Norfolk, VA. The water temps get down to 40 deg. by the end of Jan, and the air temps can get a bit below freezing (I stop fishing when the line freezes in the guides). I also fish at night under the lights of the bridge during this time, so the danger is significantly increased. Not a lot of boats are on the water in the winter, and the time it would take for the Coast Guard to react would probably exceed the time it would take for someone who fell overboard to succumb to hypothermia.

This last weekend, while we were out on the water at the CBBT, two fishermen lost their lives at the 3rd or 4th Island due to going into the water and probably succumbing to hypothermia.
http://hamptonroads.com/2009/12/two-fou ... bay-bridge

Last winter two lost their lives:
http://cruelkev2.blogspot.com/2009/01/2 ... shing.html

As a result, I carry towels, a sweat suit and thick socks, and a sleeping bag in the winter. If someone fell overboard, you don't have much time to get them back on board, get them out of their wet clothing, get them dry, and tucked into the sleeping bag. Once that is done, you can head for port and have the Coast Guard either meet you on the water in route, or have medical authorities meet you at the dock.

The other thing that scares the dickens out of me at the CBBT at night is the ripping tidal current. If someone fell overboard, it would not take long for them to disappear outside of the light line to be lost forever. I carry one of those strobe lights that when you toss it overboard, it flashes about once every two seconds. It is stored upside down, and when tossed overboard, it floats right side up. When righted, the light is activated. I also have a knife taped to the pulpit rail to cut the anchor line in a hurry. If someone fell overboard while we were anchored on the light line, the strobe would get tossed overboard, and the anchor line would get cut and the light would be chased down.

One problem I've not completely solved is how to get the person back on board if they are unable to provide any help. A water temp of 40 deg. would sap the energy of even the most physically fit person. I keep the boarding ladder on board. It is easy enough to get the person to the motor bracket where they can be dragged up onto it. Then they have to be lifted over the transom onto the deck where they can be helped out of their we clothes.

Any thoughts on getting a wet very cold...nearly helpless...person back on board?

Dave

aka
 
Porkchunker":1v6e3kef said:
Any thoughts on getting a wet very cold...nearly helpless...person back on board?

Dave

aka

tougher than most people think. we pulled a Skyway bridge jumper (dead) out last year. grabbed him under the arm pits and pulled him up onto the swim platform which is level with the water when more than one person is standing on that side of the boat. two people to drag him over the transom and it was not easy.

thoughts on your sleeping bag scenario. just like a cold or hot drink, when you insulate it, the sleeping bag or coolie cup holder will maintain the current temp. if the person is hypothermic, while you will prevent further drop in temperature, conversely you will hinder a rise in body temperature as well. you will need to put a heat source in the sleeping bag to effectively raise their body temp. you can either use some sort of device, or you can assign someone to get in the sleeping bag with them which very effective.
 
grouperjim":22joxghx said:
Porkchunker":22joxghx said:
Any thoughts on getting a wet very cold...nearly helpless...person back on board?

Dave

aka

tougher than most people think. we pulled a Skyway bridge jumper (dead) out last year. grabbed him under the arm pits and pulled him up onto the swim platform which is level with the water when more than one person is standing on that side of the boat. two people to drag him over the transom and it was not easy.

thoughts on your sleeping bag scenario. just like a cold or hot drink, when you insulate it, the sleeping bag or coolie cup holder will maintain the current temp. if the person is hypothermic, while you will prevent further drop in temperature, conversely you will hinder a rise in body temperature as well. you will need to put a heat source in the sleeping bag to effectively raise their body temp. you can either use some sort of device, or you can assign someone to get in the sleeping bag with them which very effective.

Yep...a second Ranger in the sleeping bag was the "School Approved Method" for warming your Ranger buddy. When it comes to life and death situations, you do what you have to do.

Dave

aka
 
Dave,
Like you I'm one of those guys who likes to think ahead and plan for emergencies.

I am still trying to come up with a method to lift a helpless or unconscious person from the water.

Something that inflates or a sling that goes to a winch system would be my suggestions but how to make it happen when there is little or no time is something that needs to be worked out.
 
Porkchunker":34lruo8b said:
Yep...a second Ranger in the sleeping bag was the "School Approved Method" for warming your Ranger buddy. When it comes to life and death situations, you do what you have to do.

Dave

aka

don't ask what the "approved method" is for SAR swimmers huddled together shivering unprotected for an hour in the corner of a 12 ft deep training pool with water temps in the 50s. :shock: :oops:
 
Porkchunker":2zvo72mk said:
One problem I've not completely solved is how to get the person back on board if they are unable to provide any help.

The first thing that comes to mind is a davit to lift, and a harness on the victim.
A davit fabricated to fit into a vertical rod holder should be simple enough to fabricate, it is the harness that is trickier.

The simplest thing would be a length of 1" tubular nylon webbing which could be fashioned into a harness that could be worn by all on board, but assumes everyone wears one before the fact.
Commercial harnesses could also be worn, but again you'd have to already be wearing one.

You might be able to use a 'horse collar' device like the CG uses, but a lot would depend on the condition of the victim at the time of rescue.

Recovery might be a bit easier if all aboard wore a float coat like the Mustang Survival coat in the photo below.

DSCN0011.JPG


A float coat would give the victim a bit more time and they wouldn't exhaust all their energy just trying to stay afloat.

Good thread Dave.
 
My brother is a cadet at the coast guard academy and has some training with this stuff...

When we had my fat cousin out on the boat with us and we went swimming he and his CG buddies had him put his back to the side of the boat, then each lifted under basically an arm pit/arm. For what it's worth it was effective hahhaa
 
When we had my fat cousin out on the boat with us and we went swimming he and his CG buddies had him put his back to the side of the boat, then each lifted under basically an arm pit/arm.

The Life Saving Service supposedly recovered folks this way. It prevented broken ribs.
 
Porkchunker":76gjpsuk said:
Any thoughts on getting a wet very cold...nearly helpless...person back on board?
Boy, I tell you ... I wish I knew! My friend Doug and I once pulled 4 guys aboard, all 4 hit the 52-degree water and had been in for ?? until they couldn't move. One made the beach and waved a lifejacket as I cruised by, the only boat on the water that morning.

To make a long story short, when we rescued the other 3, none had lifejackets on and all were clinging to debris, whether it was a cooler or whatever. All 3 men SUNK when we came along side as they all let go of whatever they were holding onto and none could move their arms :shock: ! We literally hooked 2 with the boathook and 1 with a snagging treble when he was a good 4' DOWN in the water, and going down.

To your question, this was on my old Pro-Line with a cutout transom and somehow we pulled in them up through the small gap between the hull and the motor. All the guys were well over 220 pounds each. For the next few weeks, my chest killed me, as it was soooooooooo heavily bruised, ribs, diaphragm, and all, from pulling as hard as I could as I leaned over the side of the boat or the motor cowling.

To this day I wonder how we even pulled such big helpless men aboard ... but I tell you ... adrenaline sure must be one powerful juju !

Sadly, if I had been on my present boat ... I think 1 or 2 would have persished, as the seas and winds were terrible, which I left out to get to the point ...
 
One point on recovery: with the person in the water and facing the boat, cross grab the arms ie right grabs right, left grabs left. When you (or two people) lift the person is automatically turned around and is significantly easier to bring into the boat or onto swim platform/bracket. This is amazing when you do it the first time. It's how I get my kids out.

SECOND POINT - very important!!!!! - in cold water the single most important thing is what?

a. time in the water
b. age of the person
c. size of the person
d. strength of the person
e. lifejacket
 
Guys this is a little off from the question asked but i want to share it, if you find yourself in the water and can not get yourself up and out get to the rear of boat (hopefully motor is off) Try to get a hold on motor with arms and legs and use the engine mounted trim switch to lift the motor and you up and out of water, hopefully this will get you in better position to get into boat. Becareful out there!
 
My wife and I lived/cruised on a sailboat for 3 years. If the seas are bad enough to knock you off the deck the odds are you'll never get back aboard. While offshore in all but the best daylight weather, we thethered ourselves to the boat with double line safety harnesses.

We used to admit, "If you go overboard, about the only thing I can do is throw you a sandwich."
 
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