Console Wiring Dilemma

[pelagic2530]

One of the main projects I’m facing with the new 1700 is a complete overhaul of the electrical system onboard. Currently, pretty much everything is wired straight to the battery, without even a disconnect switch [emoji33] The battery is also located at the stern of the boat, adding to the overall stern-heavy nature of the boat. There is no switch panel, just a few cheesy pull-style switches to control the nav lights.

So, the basic plan is as follows:

1) Relocate battery to console.
2) Install single battery on/off switch.
3) Install Blue Seas switch panel and fuse panel to support electrical/electronics load.

Here are the main issues I’m coming up against:

1) The classic fuse vs. breakers argument. The main systems I’m looking to support with a switch are nav/anchor lights, cockpit lights, bilge pump manual switch, baitwell pump, and horn. The systems I need to power without a switch are engine instruments and electronics. With these types of systems, is there any great advantage to using a switch panel (such as the Blue Seas Contura switch/breaker panel) over just a switch panel with a fuse block after the switches? I was looking at using the Blue Seas ST Blade Fuse Block, possibly two if I need that number of fused circuits. I’m just unsure if there’s any use to having breakers if I need fuses as well.

2) For the wiring run from the console to the stern for the motor, bilge and baitwell pumps, should I run separate wires for each, keeping the fuses in the console, or install a second fuse/terminal block at the stern to power these? I’d like to keep all the fuses in the console if possible to keep them as protected as possible, as there’s no good dry place at the stern. Are there any major problems with the relatively long wiring runs, and how should I protect the wiring runs to/from the stern?

I’m sure I’ll have more questions as I start the project, and I think I’m making this more complicated than it needs to be, but at this point I’ve thought myself into a corner and could use some guidance.

Thanks in advance guys!




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[warthog5]

WOW! I could write a whole book on what you asked.

I don't think you have done enough research.

Just starting with your #1 & #2 your starting wrong.

Dual batteries are for redundancy on a boat. A pair of Gp24's will serve you well. 1 starting and 1 deepcycle.

The switch should be a BEP cluster. This gives you full control....It gives you a dedicated House battery and protects your electronics from being Spiked. It gives you a backup to you startiing battery should it fail.

 

[pelagic2530]

WOW! I could write a whole book on what you asked.

I don't think you have done enough research.

Just starting with your #1 & #2 your starting wrong.

Dual batteries are for redundancy on a boat. A pair of Gp24's will serve you well. 1 starting and 1 deepcycle.

The switch should be a BEP cluster. This gives you full control....It gives you a dedicated House battery and protects your electronics from being Spiked. It gives you a backup to you startiing battery should it fail.

Hi WH, I was hoping you’d weigh in on this.

I agree with your idea of two batteries in principle, my 25’ is set up much like you said above. For this application I’m deciding to stick with one. My reasons are as follows: The “house load” on this boat is going to be very low. Depth sounder, led lights, possibly a baitwell pump. No radio (handheld), stereo (Bluetooth speaker), radar or other heavy electrical loads. For most of the fishing that I do, the engine stays running throughout the duration. This is also a near shore, short trip boat, and the battery gets charged between uses. Second reason is space. I don’t have the battery boxes at the stern that the 18’s have, and stuffing two batteries in this console is going to eat up most of the room in there as it is. I just don’t think that, given the way in which I use the boat, that the additional weight and complexity of a two-battery is justified, given that so far I’ve seen no evidence of needing the additional capacity. Does that make any sense?


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[shawnee83]

As I’m trying to think this through I’m focusing on the first and primary origination of your boats 12V system which in my opinion is your engine and specifically the engine ground wire followed by the engine positive that must be connected to the battery switch with of course a wire run from the switch to the positive on the start battery. As the harnes on the motor won’t likely reach to the consol you will need to redo those wires IMO to keep everything under the consol vs. trying to mount a switch or buss bars in the stern where you don’t have a good place to do that? That said, I would have a new positive and negative wire made for the engine and run them to the new battery and switch location under/in the consol. If your battery switch is turned off then nothing in the boat should have power including the engine and engine gauges. If the 17 doesn’t have jump seats in the stern to mount a switch or bus bars, as I think you have indicated, then I would just run the wires for the bilge pump and any bait-well pumps up to a fused and or breaker switch at the console. Obviously, the bilge will need to have a positive lead directly to the battery but you get the idea. As Wart mentioned, consider the BEP Cluster switch and using 2 batteries as you are going to be fishing and using a bait well. You just turn on you start battery switch and the house battery switch to the on position and forget about it. The switches built in electronic control box automatically manages isolating your start battery and also charging the battery’s when the engine is running without having to worry about messing with the selector switch. So run everything to the consol and mount your switch and bus bars there for everything else to connect to.

 

[Brent]

I usually draw with pencil n paper a diagram, add a few symbols and go spend money list on the next page. One thing I want to do is add strip terminal strip for the aft bilge pump and have a second pump ready with terminals to swap out pump quickly .bc you might need new battery holders that the side supporting posts remove, and add another or two cigarette lighter outlets with usb ports

B2

 

[shawnee83]

Based on your reason, I understand why you don’t want 2 batteries. The rest of the concept I mentioned is the same. Make new pos and neg cables from the engine to the console and neg goes to bat neg and pos goes to battery switch. Several variations after that to consider.

 

[Brent]

Just throwing out M2cw install 2 batteries

 

[warthog5]

Let's talk about that New Pos/Neg cable's from motor mentioned above.

Normally I use this.

I shorten the factory cables and tie them into the unit above and then run the larger cables forward.


Now....For the longer length you will need larger cables. But the problem is the gromment on the outboard. It's designed for the Siamese cables that are there from the factory. Larger cables will not fit thru the Gromment.

 

[shawnee83]

Interesting add on those cables Wart. This is where your experience is invaluable.

 

[pelagic2530]

Let's talk about that New Pos/Neg cable's from motor mentioned above.

Normally I use this.

I shorten the factory cables and tie them into the unit above and then run the larger cables forward.


Now....For the longer length you will need larger cables. But the problem is the gromment on the outboard. It's designed for the Siamese cables that are there from the factory. Larger cables will not fit thru the Gromment.

Wart, thank you for the tip on this one. I’m assuming this post is not waterproof? If so, any past experience in waterproofing it?

Here’s a picture of my transom and rigging area, including the current location of the battery. There isn’t really a good place to mount something like that out of the weather. I suppose I could do something up under the covering board, back by the stern light socket?

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[kidfreediver]

Let's talk about that New Pos/Neg cable's from motor mentioned above.

Normally I use this.

I shorten the factory cables and tie them into the unit above and then run the larger cables forward.


Now....For the longer length you will need larger cables. But the problem is the gromment on the outboard. It's designed for the Siamese cables that are there from the factory. Larger cables will not fit thru the Gromment.

Wart, thank you for the tip on this one. I’m assuming this post is not waterproof? If so, any past experience in waterproofing it?

Here’s a picture of my transom and rigging area, including the current location of the battery. There isn’t really a good place to mount something like that out of the weather. I suppose I could do something up under the covering board, back by the stern light socket?

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is this boat not a center console? There should be rigging to the console to run your wire through you can always straight sleeve the cables and heat shrink if water intrusion is the issue. Move those batteries out of the weather and put in a bep cluster. I read through the comments looks like the writing on the wall.

 

[pelagic2530]

Let's talk about that New Pos/Neg cable's from motor mentioned above.

Normally I use this.

I shorten the factory cables and tie them into the unit above and then run the larger cables forward.


Now....For the longer length you will need larger cables. But the problem is the gromment on the outboard. It's designed for the Siamese cables that are there from the factory. Larger cables will not fit thru the Gromment.

Wart, thank you for the tip on this one. I’m assuming this post is not waterproof? If so, any past experience in waterproofing it?

Here’s a picture of my transom and rigging area, including the current location of the battery. There isn’t really a good place to mount something like that out of the weather. I suppose I could do something up under the covering board, back by the stern light socket?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

is this boat not a center console? There should be rigging to the console to run your wire through you can always straight sleeve the cables and heat shrink if water intrusion is the issue. Move those batteries out of the weather and put in a bep cluster. I read through the comments looks like the writing on the wall.

The boat is a CC. The issue here is that, if I’m understanding him correctly, WH is suggesting mounting the pictured terminal post at the stern, running the original wires from the engine to the post, then running the larger wire for the long run from the post to the battery in the console. I’m trying to think of where I could mount the terminal post block out of the weather at the stern, as there aren’t and jump seats or enclosures back there.

Based on the feedback of several members, I’m considering going with a dual battery system. Limiting factor will be space in the console. I’ll have to wait until I get home to see what will fit in there battery wise. If anyone has any pictures of battery/panel installations inside the type of console pictured below, I’m wide open to ideas.

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[Megabyte]

Two batteries is ideal, but in that console, I think it might be too tight.
I had a similar issue with my 17 Dusky years ago and solved the issue with a single group 27.

As with you, my power needs were not extreme - bottom machine, GPS, VHF, and nav lights. That is a light load.
For an inshore CC, I'd stick with a quality single AGM, a quality battery switch, and quality wire.

 

[pelagic2530]

Two batteries is ideal, but in that console, I think it might be too tight.
I had a similar issue with my 17 Dusky years ago and solved the issue with a single group 27.

As with you, my power needs were not extreme - bottom machine, GPS, VHF, and nav lights. That is a light load.
For an inshore CC, I'd stick with a quality single AGM, a quality battery switch, and quality wire.

Thanks Megabyte, like I said I’m debating the two options but I really doubt I have room for two batteries. I’m also looking at devices like the Blue Seas Low Voltage Disconnect, seems like that could be a good way to make sure to always maintain enough charge to start the motor. Anyone have experience with these?


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[1801Steve]

I have been hesitant to jump in here, but.....

I am a marine surveyor. Our company looked at 600 claims last year. Lots of electrical fires. If you have to ask as many questions as you have asked then you need professional help. If you insist on doing it on your own, you WILL increase the risk of an electrical fire.... despite your best efforts. Be sure that you tell your insurance company that you completely rewired the boat on your own, with no professional help, and no knowledge of ABYC E-11. :>) If you are reluctant to tell them that, then you shouldn't undertake the project.

Yes, it's my job to rain on parades....

 

[shawnee83]

I would mount that engine pos/neg terminal up high under the gunwall on that starboard side. That should protect it from most/all direct rain and spray moisture. Then you can run the new heavier cables down that chase from there shielded with additional split loom/rigging tubing hose etc.. Again, someone else may have a better idea?

You can do this job as long as you take your time and plan it out, JMO. Asking the questions you are asking along the way and paying attention to the ABYC guidelines/codes as related to proper sizing your wires, types of connections etc... Research and read and ask questions. Lots of knowledge here with some knowing more than others. Adding all the combined knowledge here and you should get good info. This is a very doable job. Take your time and you will get it right.

 

[PKS1801]

It was on the news last week, that the last of the Munchkins from The Wizard of Oz died a few months ago, so I don't know who Parker is using now to do the wiring inside their consoles. I have the same console on an 1801, except my opening is on the starboard side. All the wiring connections are jammed as far as possible into the corner where that round plate attaches the tee top on yours, so the routine is this: stick your head in and see what needs to be done, then take your head out and stick one arm in to try to do the work from memory. It's really fun trying to manage a screwdriver, one of those 1/4 inch long connector screws, and a wire or two. Oh, and a flash light. I am 69 years old, and 220 pounds, so working in that small space between console door and gunnel just adds to the fun!
First thing to do is mount a couple of good LED lights in the console that won't shine in your eyes while you work. Enlarge the door, and if you don't have one on the other side, add one. I have only done a few simple things, like swap out some electronics, add a gauge or two, etc., but every one of them took many times as long as they should have because of accessibility issues. If I was re-wiring the console, I would run everything to a loom with enough slack to have all my fuse blocks and connections on the back of the door, withing easy sight and reach when I opened it out.
On the other hand, there is plenty of room on the deck inside for at least 2 batteries.

 

[pelagic2530]

I have been hesitant to jump in here, but.....

I am a marine surveyor. Our company looked at 600 claims last year. Lots of electrical fires. If you have to ask as many questions as you have asked then you need professional help. If you insist on doing it on your own, you WILL increase the risk of an electrical fire.... despite your best efforts. Be sure that you tell your insurance company that you completely rewired the boat on your own, with no professional help, and no knowledge of ABYC E-11. :>) If you are reluctant to tell them that, then you shouldn't undertake the project.

Yes, it's my job to rain on parades....

Thanks 1801Steve! I certainly appreciate the opinion of a professional marine surveyor in this endeavor. The reason that I’m asking questions here is to consolidate the things that I already know, and to draw on the experience of other members in doing similar projects. I’m not jumping into this tomorrow, I’m gathering my sources, my ideas, and my plans before I proceed. Everyone learns from somewhere, so I’m starting here. Rest assured, when I’m done I’ll be happy to show it to you, or the insurance company, or anyone else that would like to see it. Because the last person that wants it to burst into flame is me.

I appreciate the resource that you posted in your first post, and if you have any others you think I ought to review, I’d like to hear about them. If not, well I hope how this project ends up surprising you in a positive way. Again, thanks for the input!


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[warthog5]

You did a side pix....But didn't include one of the most important pix's......How the rigging runs?

As to that Buss attachment. That's easy......BUT! I'm guessing the rigging runs under the STB washboard? Is that correct?

Just mount it under the washboard. Make connections there.....Use the included boot and Diaelectric grease well on the connections.

2ga cable should work fine going forward for that motor.

 

[shawnee83]

You did a side pix....But didn't include one of the most important pix's......How the rigging runs?

As to that Buss attachment. That's easy......BUT! I'm guessing the rigging runs under the STB washboard? Is that correct?

Just mount it under the washboard. Make connections there.....Use the included boot and Diaelectric grease well on the connections.

2ga cable should work fine going forward for that motor.

Wart, if you look closely at the pic showing the batteries in the corner you can see a box out in the that corner that comes up a foot or so and the rigging hose is going into that? So it appears to run under the deck from there to the console. He can still mount that engine bus under the gunwall above the chase.