Does anyone know anything about small outboard motors?

[TheOtherLine]

I bought a small Jon boat a few weeks ago. After about 1 hour of rowing around I decided I wanted a motor but didn't want to spend a whole lot of money on this whim (Jon boat).

I picked up this little motor at a yard sale. It's a 1984 Evinrude 2hp. It runs great but the owner didn't know how to adjust the knobs for fuel mixture. He just always kept them dead center.

These aren't the choke. The choke is to the left in the picture and pulls out.

These are two knobs that are adjusted separately for high speed and low speed.

Can anyone explain when and how the knobs are used?

Thanks

I

 

[DaleH]

Try this ...

1st get it started and get it warmed up. Whereas you have to do high speed too, I'd put it onto a 12' skiff or 14', as long as transom height was fine for it, and tie the skiff securely to the dock. I wouldn't attempt this in a barrel or tank. Shut off.

NEXT - BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE ... without it running, turn IN the SLOW speed jet, counting the # of turns until the needle seats/screw stops. WRITE it down! Turn it back to where it was. Do the same for the HIGH speed jet, again writing it down.

Start the motor and put to low idle.

SLOW: Once started and running, turn out (counter-clockwise) 1/4-turn at a time, pause, and turn/repeat until the RPMs drop and she sputters. Turn the other way IN, 1/4-turn & paused, until she reaches her 'highest' sounding RPMs. Once too far she'll lean stall and may backfire. Back off 1/4-turn (or more!) until she stays running at the highest sounding RPMs, albeit this is idle speeds.

FAST: Start and adjust akin to slow speed. Once you think it is OK, go from high speed running to idle. In fact - to test, untie the boat and get up onto plane and WOT, then throttle back from high speed to low. If she stumbles at low, you may need to adjust it again (low speed jet). Usually you may have to check/tweak the other once you re-adjust one. If you had 2, 3, or 6 carbs, you need to check/tweak/adjust ALL again after re-setting one :shock: ... haha!

Also then later buy some Seafoam (Walmart or Auto Zone) and mix 1 can w/ gallon fuel. Split into two half-gallons and add oil required for this 2hp 2-stroke motor. Fill tank and run for 5-minutes at high idle, then shutoff for 15-minutes. Repeat 2 or 3 more times.

Use that other 1/2-gal mix to "clean out" any other motor, chainsaw, weed whacker, etc., adding oil where may be required of course.

Oh, put in new plug gapped at 0.030" regardless of what the spark plug book might state.

PM me if needed ...

 

[TheOtherLine]

Ok Dale. Very good instructions. Some thoughts;

( I know you said to pm you but I thought others might benefit from this public lesson.)

1) I know this sounds stupid but I don't think there is an "idle" on this motor. In other words, there is no neutral. There's start, slow, fast. That's it. How does that change anything?

2) What's the tie in to writing down the turns to the actual adjustments?

3) I'll tie the 10' Johnny to the dock but just out of curiosity, what is the reason NOT to do it in a barrel?

 

[Southern Style]

Dale was spot on with his suggestions.The reason for the boat,and not a barrel or tank is to create torque or a load on motor.(Everyone knows a motor runs it's best in a barrel).Otherwise all you do is throw water around.These older motors are carbed,the adjustments are for optimum lean/richness.Once you find the sweetspot where it run the best(on plane and at idle),leave it there.Like Dale said"write down how many turns you made on the adjustments".I suggest running only non-ethanol fuel.These older carbed motors don't like ethanol at all.The older motors have a higher fuel/oil mix ratio alsnce you get it dialed in,these little motors last forever with proper maintenance.

 

[DaleH]

( I know you said to pm you but I thought others might benefit from this public lesson.)

1) I know this sounds stupid but I don't think there is an "idle" on this motor. In other words, there is no neutral. There's start, slow, fast. That's it. How does that change anything?

There is an idle speed, that is the slowest speed available. There is just no neutral. Start speed is typically a few hundred RPMs above slowest idle. She should be able to stay running at the slowest speed setting, when tuned correctly.

2) What's the tie in to writing down the turns to the actual adjustments?

Well, if you at least had it starting, even if not still running the best, you at least have a place to go back to if you get all messed up! Just to get her started ...

3) I'll tie the 10' Johnny to the dock but just out of curiosity, what is the reason NOT to do it in a barrel?

As So Style mentioned, there's not enough backpressure from the exhaust on the system to load it properly and continually running a motor in a barrel puts aerated water through the cooling system, which isn't cool, as it's loaded with hot air bubbles. Even when using muffs, I use muffs to tell me one thing and one thing only ... either she starts or she doesn't. That goes for anyone BTW! One truly needs a motor immersed in the water for effective tuning and/or diagnosing.

 

[TheOtherLine]

Thank you both for your insight. Now I understand why I'm doing what I'm doing.

I will give it a try and see how it works out.

One last question. When I do the quarter turns, either in or out, do I START from the full opposite side or do I just start turning from the center position where the knobs are now?

In other words, to dial in the slow speed, do I turn the knob all the way clockwise and THEN start the quarter turns counter clockwise?

 

[DaleH]

One last question. When I do the quarter turns, either in or out, do I START from the full opposite side or do I just start turning from the center position where the knobs are now?

In other words, to dial in the slow speed, do I turn the knob all the way clockwise and THEN start the quarter turns counter clockwise?

One at a time, motor off, turn BOTH in while counting the turns in to seat, then back them off to where they were set.

For the SLOW, I would start backing out by 1/4-turns, as she probably was set OK, if she started fine. Once she even hints at stumbling or the RPMs drop, then stop and go back in by 1/4-turns.

You may find the high speed jet OK where is, so after you tune/check the SLOW speed, take her out for a run!

 

[TheOtherLine]

This weeks project ...

... and carb adjustment

 

[TheOtherLine]

Uh oh....

I removed the lower unit to get to the water pump and impeller (14 & 16). I removed the drive shaft (21) to clean it (remove some rust on the surface).

I'm thinking....this is easy so far, this is fun. I should order a repair manual so I can repair / replace any other items (prop, gear oil etc.,) as they come up.

As I'm reading the manual ( which covers 1.5 to 60 hp motors from early 70's to late 80's), I notice in big black letters DO NOT REMOVE THE DRIVE SHAFT FROM THE PINION GEAR (7) DURING WATER PUMP SERVICING AS YOU WILL HAVE TO DISASSEMBLE THE ENTIRE LOWER UNIT (6) TO INSTALL THE DRIVESHAFT BACK INTO THE PINION GEAR.

I'll give you one guess as to the two words that came out of my mouth at that moment.... :shock:

Actually, many words came out of my mouth so just about any two you pick, I probably said...

Anyway...I'm thinking, this is absurd. How hard can it be to line up the drive shaft splines with pinion gear? So, I lower the shaft back down the lower unit, slowly turning the drive shaft and prop simultaneously when suddenly, the drive shaft falls into place! I turn the prop and the drive shaft spins! Seems to me that it's seated properly.

..but the instructions say I need to disassemble the lower unit. I seated the shaft on the first try. Too easy. I must have done something wrong. Nothing is ever that easy....

My mind is playing tricks on me and things that I thought I knew for sure , I am second guessing. For example, the instructions say that to install the impeller correctly, you must spin the drive shaft CLOCKWISE and seat the impeller fins so that the bend in the fins are also pointed clockwise. BUT if you spin the drive shaft clockwise, the prop spins COUNTER CLOCKWISE. There is no reverse so, if you spin the prop clockwise, ( which is how it spins when in forward gear) then the drive shaft will spin counter clockwise and I'm thinking the impeller,which is keyed to the shaft, will not push water correctly and I'll burn it up.

I have a headache. All of a sudden, this isn't fun anymore...

Has anyone done this project on a similar motor who can offer some guidance?

Am I overthinking things?

I need to find a service manual just on the 2 hp. The current manual is too confusing...

Thanks..

 

[DaleH]

I think your pinion get is set in REVERSE ... more later, gotta run out!

 

[DaleH]

... the instructions say that to install the impeller correctly, you must spin the drive shaft CLOCKWISE and seat the impeller fins so that the bend in the fins are also pointed clockwise.

OK, now I'm confused too :roll: ... as that motor does not have a reverse gear ...

Impeller Orientation:
However, typically when looking down on the impeller from above, the driveshaft rotates clockwise and the tips of the blades follow or are behind the rotation, or off towards the counter-clockwise direction ... which conflicts with your manual. See the pictures below. Note that impeller blades DO NOT scoop water, but they fling or sling it. The blade is bent or forced into a compressed position (impeller is eccentric to the housing), and as the blade rotates past the open passage area, the blade unflexes and slings or throws the water up and into the cooling system.

Also see here, small HP Nissans showing impeller blade orientation: http://www.maxrules.com/fixnissancool.html

Driveshaft:
In 40-years I've always assembled every OB with the driveshaft rotation to be clockwise, with a forward gear or not. Now I haven't done them all, but I've done small OBs of at least 11 brands.

While you got the driveshaft re-assembled OK, why does the prop now appear to spin backwards for a CW rotation?

Manuals:
Let me 1st guess, you have either the Cylmer or Seloc manual. If so, they contain just the right amount of info to get someone into trouble ... but not out of it :evil: . I personally think that manual is wrong, as I've never seen a CW rotation D-shaft asking for the blades to also be positioned CW or off towards the right or ahead of the rotation.

On some motors they will self-align if/when installed incorrectly, however on bigger V6s, the impeller is robust enough so that 1 or 2 or more may re-set back to the OEM orientation, but the others stay in the opposite orientation ... then you get poor or no circulation.

Other:
Did you see this post? http://classicparker.com/phpBB3/viewtop ... 11&t=12056 I guess I'll have to add pictures showing the impeller blade orientation to be clearer to others who may read it.

... I would figure out your driveshaft orientation first and then proceed from there.

 

[TheOtherLine]

I think your second impeller picture comports with what the manual said. (Seco)

"the instructions say that to install the impeller correctly, you must spin the drive shaft CLOCKWISE and seat the impeller fins so that the bend in the fins are also pointed clockwise.

In your picture the TIPS of the impeller point left, the BEND IN THE IMPELLER points in the same direction as the drive shaft. SO, I THInK WE ARE GOOD.

Now the question is, is my prop turning the wrong way? Standing behind the motor, the prop is turning counter clockwise. Standing in the boat, facing aft, it's turning clockwise.

Is that correct? If not, Is it possible I have a left handed prop?

I'd hate to put this thing all back together and find out that when I seated the drive shaft, I screwed up.... :roll:

 

[DaleH]

Most props are RH props, turning clockwise when viewed from the stern.

The aft-most part of the blade should be behind or trailing the forward-most edge, as the prop spins CW.

What does your prop look like? Can you post a picture?

 

[TheOtherLine]

Video

http://youtu.be/Dl5xoxIZk80


Prop

 

[DaleH]

Sonofabitch ... by that picture that appears to be a LH prop that needs to spin counter-clockwise (at the prop) to provide aft thrust.

Someone (some other lurker/poster/member) please check me!

If that's the case, and your driveshaft rotates clockwise (as viewed from the top looking down) to spin that prop ctr'clockwise ... I think you may be good to go with your driveshaft re-install.

You might have gotten lucky ... but tis better to be lucky than good!

 

[Megabyte]

A 2 hp motor with left hand rotation?
So it's 1/2 of a twin motor setup?

 

[TheOtherLine]

A 2 hp motor with left hand rotation?
So it's 1/2 of a twin motor setup?

Well you know how hard it is to dock a 10' Jon boat... I might have put "twins" on her....

 

[TheOtherLine]

Sonofabitch ... by that picture that appears to be a LH prop that needs to spin counter-clockwise (at the prop) to provide aft thrust.

Someone (some other lurker/poster/member) please check me!

If that's the case, and your driveshaft rotates clockwise (as viewed from the top looking down) to spin that prop ctr'clockwise ... I think you may be good to go with your driveshaft re-install.

You might have gotten lucky ... but tis better to be lucky than good!

Hear that.... It never occurred to me examine the prop blades ....

I just couldn't believe the ccw rotation... I honestly don't recall ever seeing that on any non twin set up...

Well...guess we will button her up.

Thanks for the tip on NOT GREASING THE TOP SPLINES. I would have....

I need to find a manual that is specific to that motor. If you know where to find one.. Chime in.

You are correct. The SECO manual is awful....

 

[TheOtherLine]

UPDATE

So, after getting lucky with the drive shaft seating, I ran a little grease around the walls where the impeller was to go, slid it down over the shaft, inserted the key tab and turned the shaft clockwise to get the impeller fins facing correctly. Ran a bead of sealer around the housing and screwed it down.

Next I had to connect the lower to the upper. This is tricky because you have to insert the drive shaft up into the head gear but there is also this water tube that you have to insert into the hole on the impeller housing.

Of course, it's not as simple as just pushing the shaft into the head..no... You have to turn it to get it to find its correct spot... Once seated you then have to insert that tube. Mind y, when the shaft is seated properly, it "drops" into place leaving you with only an inch or two of space to get your fat fingers in there to line up the tube and the opening.

The tube appears to be copper and it's my guess if you bend it and break it, you can't go to west marine and get a new one....

Finally got it done. That part took about 45 minutes. My guess is that knowing how to do it now, I should be able to replace it in about an hour and an half next time.

My general rule is, if it ain't broke don't fix it but with these boat motors a bad $10 impeller can screw up your motor real bad, real quick....

Since I bought this used, I wasn't sure if the previous owner had ever replaced it. In fact when I removed it, it had two broken fins....

Put her in a barrel, fired her up and she pee'd like a good girl (actually more of a spray).... ran for about 5 minutes, high/low. Had my hand on the engine to see if she was overheating but she felt ok...

When the weather gets warmer, we'll put her in the water, tie her up and work on the carb settings.

Thanks Dale for your insight and advice !

 

[TheOtherLine]

Ahhhh...

Runs like a champ... Thanks guys !

I think I got the bug... Might go looking for an old 8-15 hp...