HELP!! Need advise on I/O motor.
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Bryan 2530
Well-known member
Welcome to Classic Parker.
I cannot help with the I/O question but give the guys a little time to answer, at least a day or two to get some good info.
We have many members here with that setup and I'm sure you will get the feedback you need.
One benefit of that has been discussed abut the I/O is the low center of gravity and weight a little more forward actually improves the ride.
You also may want to include a general location in your profile so members have a better idea of the kind of boating you do.
I cannot help with the I/O question but give the guys a little time to answer, at least a day or two to get some good info.
We have many members here with that setup and I'm sure you will get the feedback you need.
One benefit of that has been discussed abut the I/O is the low center of gravity and weight a little more forward actually improves the ride.
You also may want to include a general location in your profile so members have a better idea of the kind of boating you do.
Like everything there are pro's and cons. Many that have never had one, or speak about the "buddy" that owned one or those that had one of the older POS's will really talk them down. I know, I was one of those people. In my experience though the problems with modern I/O's are way over stated.
If you want to see a boat company that has done I/O's right, look no further than Albermarle or Carolina Classic. Those owners swear by them.
About 8 years ago a rarely used 2530 I/O came along at a price that made it hard to resist so I scooped it up.
I've come to like it for what it is and what I do with it...which is offshore fishing and diving. It has been very reliable, comfortable and economical. It wasn't everything I originally wanted but I've come to love the boat.
I've done 90 % of my own work on it. I like that there is a clean transom, with no ob's, spinning props, euro transoms or a bracket in the way of fishing, lines, the gaff or diving activities at the rear. I really like the swim platform. I can stand on it to gaff a fish if necessary. I have my dive ladder mounted to the platform and there is room to come aboard and turn around with fins on. The motor box is a convenient place to sit, laydown, fight a fish or don dive gear. Every parker I've seen without a motor box had a huge cooler mounted back there as a seat anyway. My cooler is on the swim platform.
Pro's:
Motor sits low in the hull and forward of transom. Closer to center of gravity, better ride, more stable on drift or troll in the trough. It rides noticablly better than my neighbors outboard/bracket pilot house. (His statement)
Generally, the motor is a 350 chevy small block. Much more user (owner friendly) for routine maintenance and repairs. The new 4S outboards with high tech computer systems, Direct High Pressure Injection systems, etc are not remotely user servicable. 350 = huge inventory and aftermarket parts availability and the readily available add on equipment.
Cheaper repower (generally much cheaper since you are just replacing the engine) You can get an aftermarket "new" motor for about $3800. I wanted the OEM and warranty.
You can add heat. I have a 30k BTU heater running off of the block that pumps heat into the cabin. It will absolutely blast you out of the cabin on high setting. It is unbelievably toasty in my cabin in the dead of winter even at idle and the door open. No need for dangerous propane heat.
Cons
I wouldn't keep an I/O in a slip for any length of time. Its better served on a trailer. You can't raise the outdrive above the water line while slipped with an I/O.
You should expect a little more complicated winterizing proceedure.
A little more upkeep and yearly maintenance (outdrive=weakest link) or at least requires more attention than an outboard lower unit.
The perceived explosion problem. I haven't heard of a gas I/O or Inboard boat blowing up but its hard to kill the perception of this danger. Use the blower always and install a fume detector if paranoid. Put a self activating extinguisher (like those old halon types) in the bilge if really paranoid. My boat came with all three so the previous owner was obviously paranoid. I always use the sniff test (nose) before heading out so the redundant safety systems have never been necessary.
Bellows. The little accordian rubber tubes that allow the drive shaft, exaust, and shift shaft pass from the transom to the middle unit. Another perception exists that these will sink your boat but I know of no cases while operating. Maybe so if slipped and you haven't kept an eye on them? If you keep the boat on a trailer and the drive trimmed down when not in use, you should get many many years of service from these. Most experts recommend replacing after 5 years. You could easily go 10 if trailered and stored with the drive down. I replaced mine after 12 years and according to the mechanic it was a waste of money...they were in perfect shape. That was about a $500.00 dollar job.
Many people will tell you to stay away from I/O's. I believe that is pure BS; most of the naysayers have never owned one. The owners of modern I/O's like em fine; outboarders hate em because they have never owned one or don't understand them. Again I know I was once a naysaying outboarder. Don't get me wrong I still like outboards and I'd own another boat with them without hesitation. I think overall they are simpler and easier to deal with.
Just know what you are getting yourself into with an I/O, know what to look for and know the weaknesses or problem areas. They are definitely different animals but they serve their purpose.
Generally speaking:
You should expect at least 10 yrs on a Raw Water motor that is flushed and reasonably maintained. A buddy has 14 yrs on his twin mercruisers and they are still going strong. He uses them in the ocean exclusively but flushes them religiously. I'm convinced that must be the biggest secret to longevity.
You can get 20+ on a fresh water motor.
Note:
I replaced my RWC motor last year. The old motor (14 yrs old and 800 hours) still ran strong but the components were starting to fail unexpectedly and at the worse possible times (i.e. while offshore). Each season it was something new, the alternator, circulation pump, fuel pump, hoses, etc. Rather than piece meal $600-$1000 worth of parts each year I decided (wisely) to repower.
I went with a new fresh water cooled, fuel injected, factory motor. It cost me $7200 with a 3 yr warranty. The outdrive on mine was fine so it stayed put. Adding an outdrive onto the purchase would have brought it up to 11k. My neighbor paid 18k for a new 4s outboard at about the same time. His old 2s had 500 hours and he wrung the shaft.
Before buying:
I would have an experienced mechanic and or surveyor go over the boat 1st.
I would be a little wary of a RWC motor older than @ 6-7 yrs.
I would want to see maintenance records of the previous owner and know his flushing practices.
I would know up front the price of a repower before I bought and be prepared to do so within the next several years. I would price the boat with this in mind...pro rating hours and years of use or abuse against the asking price and toward the repower.
I would take someone with me on the wet test that knew something about boats, esp. I/O's.
Most important:
No matter what you get make sure there is a GOOD mechanic near you that is trained/certified to work on your particular motor/outdrive.
Be prepared to walk away if the boat doesn't add up to your expectations or the seller wont build some of the above considerations into the price.
Tell us a little more about the boat youre looking at, your objectives and where you live.
If you want to see a boat company that has done I/O's right, look no further than Albermarle or Carolina Classic. Those owners swear by them.
About 8 years ago a rarely used 2530 I/O came along at a price that made it hard to resist so I scooped it up.
I've come to like it for what it is and what I do with it...which is offshore fishing and diving. It has been very reliable, comfortable and economical. It wasn't everything I originally wanted but I've come to love the boat.
I've done 90 % of my own work on it. I like that there is a clean transom, with no ob's, spinning props, euro transoms or a bracket in the way of fishing, lines, the gaff or diving activities at the rear. I really like the swim platform. I can stand on it to gaff a fish if necessary. I have my dive ladder mounted to the platform and there is room to come aboard and turn around with fins on. The motor box is a convenient place to sit, laydown, fight a fish or don dive gear. Every parker I've seen without a motor box had a huge cooler mounted back there as a seat anyway. My cooler is on the swim platform.
Pro's:
Motor sits low in the hull and forward of transom. Closer to center of gravity, better ride, more stable on drift or troll in the trough. It rides noticablly better than my neighbors outboard/bracket pilot house. (His statement)
Generally, the motor is a 350 chevy small block. Much more user (owner friendly) for routine maintenance and repairs. The new 4S outboards with high tech computer systems, Direct High Pressure Injection systems, etc are not remotely user servicable. 350 = huge inventory and aftermarket parts availability and the readily available add on equipment.
Cheaper repower (generally much cheaper since you are just replacing the engine) You can get an aftermarket "new" motor for about $3800. I wanted the OEM and warranty.
You can add heat. I have a 30k BTU heater running off of the block that pumps heat into the cabin. It will absolutely blast you out of the cabin on high setting. It is unbelievably toasty in my cabin in the dead of winter even at idle and the door open. No need for dangerous propane heat.
Cons
I wouldn't keep an I/O in a slip for any length of time. Its better served on a trailer. You can't raise the outdrive above the water line while slipped with an I/O.
You should expect a little more complicated winterizing proceedure.
A little more upkeep and yearly maintenance (outdrive=weakest link) or at least requires more attention than an outboard lower unit.
The perceived explosion problem. I haven't heard of a gas I/O or Inboard boat blowing up but its hard to kill the perception of this danger. Use the blower always and install a fume detector if paranoid. Put a self activating extinguisher (like those old halon types) in the bilge if really paranoid. My boat came with all three so the previous owner was obviously paranoid. I always use the sniff test (nose) before heading out so the redundant safety systems have never been necessary.
Bellows. The little accordian rubber tubes that allow the drive shaft, exaust, and shift shaft pass from the transom to the middle unit. Another perception exists that these will sink your boat but I know of no cases while operating. Maybe so if slipped and you haven't kept an eye on them? If you keep the boat on a trailer and the drive trimmed down when not in use, you should get many many years of service from these. Most experts recommend replacing after 5 years. You could easily go 10 if trailered and stored with the drive down. I replaced mine after 12 years and according to the mechanic it was a waste of money...they were in perfect shape. That was about a $500.00 dollar job.
Many people will tell you to stay away from I/O's. I believe that is pure BS; most of the naysayers have never owned one. The owners of modern I/O's like em fine; outboarders hate em because they have never owned one or don't understand them. Again I know I was once a naysaying outboarder. Don't get me wrong I still like outboards and I'd own another boat with them without hesitation. I think overall they are simpler and easier to deal with.
Just know what you are getting yourself into with an I/O, know what to look for and know the weaknesses or problem areas. They are definitely different animals but they serve their purpose.
Generally speaking:
You should expect at least 10 yrs on a Raw Water motor that is flushed and reasonably maintained. A buddy has 14 yrs on his twin mercruisers and they are still going strong. He uses them in the ocean exclusively but flushes them religiously. I'm convinced that must be the biggest secret to longevity.
You can get 20+ on a fresh water motor.
Note:
I replaced my RWC motor last year. The old motor (14 yrs old and 800 hours) still ran strong but the components were starting to fail unexpectedly and at the worse possible times (i.e. while offshore). Each season it was something new, the alternator, circulation pump, fuel pump, hoses, etc. Rather than piece meal $600-$1000 worth of parts each year I decided (wisely) to repower.
I went with a new fresh water cooled, fuel injected, factory motor. It cost me $7200 with a 3 yr warranty. The outdrive on mine was fine so it stayed put. Adding an outdrive onto the purchase would have brought it up to 11k. My neighbor paid 18k for a new 4s outboard at about the same time. His old 2s had 500 hours and he wrung the shaft.
Before buying:
I would have an experienced mechanic and or surveyor go over the boat 1st.
I would be a little wary of a RWC motor older than @ 6-7 yrs.
I would want to see maintenance records of the previous owner and know his flushing practices.
I would know up front the price of a repower before I bought and be prepared to do so within the next several years. I would price the boat with this in mind...pro rating hours and years of use or abuse against the asking price and toward the repower.
I would take someone with me on the wet test that knew something about boats, esp. I/O's.
Most important:
No matter what you get make sure there is a GOOD mechanic near you that is trained/certified to work on your particular motor/outdrive.
Be prepared to walk away if the boat doesn't add up to your expectations or the seller wont build some of the above considerations into the price.
Tell us a little more about the boat youre looking at, your objectives and where you live.
Bryan 2530
Well-known member
Great "real world" info!!
Now lets see some pics of that 2530!!!
Now lets see some pics of that 2530!!!
BlueSky
Well-known member
As a owner of a 2530 I/O for 11 years, I agree for the most part with GW's analysis.
The only area I would disagree is whether the boat can sit in the water for long periods. My boat goes in the first week of March and gets hauled the first week in December. Once or twice during the season, I go in the water or hang over the swim platform to scrub growth off the lower unit. I have never had any problems related to extended soaking of the outdrive other than growth which can knock off a little speed if you don't use the boat for a long period.
The only thing I would add is you can have a brand new Mercruiser 5.7 with Bravo 3 installed with 3 year warantee for around $20k and you can purchase another 3 years of warantee for both. Diesel would be another $7-9k.
Good luck,
Brian
The only area I would disagree is whether the boat can sit in the water for long periods. My boat goes in the first week of March and gets hauled the first week in December. Once or twice during the season, I go in the water or hang over the swim platform to scrub growth off the lower unit. I have never had any problems related to extended soaking of the outdrive other than growth which can knock off a little speed if you don't use the boat for a long period.
The only thing I would add is you can have a brand new Mercruiser 5.7 with Bravo 3 installed with 3 year warantee for around $20k and you can purchase another 3 years of warantee for both. Diesel would be another $7-9k.
Good luck,
Brian
Doorman,
How many hours are on the boat? How was it used by the owner? Fished, dived, commercial or just cruised? Was it kept in a slip or trailer? What outdrive is on it? If you don't mind seeking additional imput from members here, put the asking price and pics up. Providing of course the owner isn't a member here :lol: :lol:
Bluesky,
You are absolutely correct. I guess I should have been more clear...It's not that it cant be done, its just that I don't want or need to personally. I know people that have done so without too much incident (with of course the proper cleaning, paint, zincs and upkeep). Modern outdrives are pretty durable outfits with the various corrosion protection attributes such as Mercathode, multiple zincs, multilayer paints, etc.
Corrosion is just one issue as I have also seen some major horror cases in the chesapeake bay where hard growth got inside water passages and clogged the inlets; also barnacle growth on the bellows appeared to be the cause of damage to them. In those cases the boat sat for a long period of time (a whole season) without any or much intervention. On a trailer boat I just haven't had to worry about any of that.
Although a design defect, the early Bravo 3 outdrives corrosion issues were pretty much from slipped boats.
You have to admit though that a trailered I/O will have more general longevity and fewer potential issues compared to similarly maintained slipped boat. I dont see bellows lasting 12 years on any slipped boat. How do you clean around your bellows or prevent growth on them?
The biggest issue I have is that the drive can't be raised out of the water like an outboard can and the motor cannot usually be flushed and drained easily if kept in a slip.
How many hours are on the boat? How was it used by the owner? Fished, dived, commercial or just cruised? Was it kept in a slip or trailer? What outdrive is on it? If you don't mind seeking additional imput from members here, put the asking price and pics up. Providing of course the owner isn't a member here :lol: :lol:
Bluesky,
You are absolutely correct. I guess I should have been more clear...It's not that it cant be done, its just that I don't want or need to personally. I know people that have done so without too much incident (with of course the proper cleaning, paint, zincs and upkeep). Modern outdrives are pretty durable outfits with the various corrosion protection attributes such as Mercathode, multiple zincs, multilayer paints, etc.
Corrosion is just one issue as I have also seen some major horror cases in the chesapeake bay where hard growth got inside water passages and clogged the inlets; also barnacle growth on the bellows appeared to be the cause of damage to them. In those cases the boat sat for a long period of time (a whole season) without any or much intervention. On a trailer boat I just haven't had to worry about any of that.
Although a design defect, the early Bravo 3 outdrives corrosion issues were pretty much from slipped boats.
You have to admit though that a trailered I/O will have more general longevity and fewer potential issues compared to similarly maintained slipped boat. I dont see bellows lasting 12 years on any slipped boat. How do you clean around your bellows or prevent growth on them?
The biggest issue I have is that the drive can't be raised out of the water like an outboard can and the motor cannot usually be flushed and drained easily if kept in a slip.
After a little research, apparently there are big problems with the volvo composite drive...
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... ssues.html
The problems seem genuine and pretty specific, not rumor and allegation stuff.
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... ssues.html
The problems seem genuine and pretty specific, not rumor and allegation stuff.
GW,
The outdrive is a Bravo 3 with a Duo prop. It has 366 on the engine, he used it for fishing? and the boat was slipped in brakish water but it is real clean and in good condition.
This is mine and the mrs. first boat so not only do I value and appreciate everyones wisdom on this site, I will be taking notes and advise on many topics.
Did I mention how much I love this site
By the way, do you know what the approx. gas consumtion might be?
The outdrive is a Bravo 3 with a Duo prop. It has 366 on the engine, he used it for fishing? and the boat was slipped in brakish water but it is real clean and in good condition.
This is mine and the mrs. first boat so not only do I value and appreciate everyones wisdom on this site, I will be taking notes and advise on many topics.
Did I mention how much I love this site
By the way, do you know what the approx. gas consumtion might be?
There were problems with Bravo III between 1994 and 2000. With that said, dont write it off just yet. If the problem was corrected I would not hesitate to own one.
You need to do a little investigative work to make sure this problem was appropiately resolved by the owner. Since you say the boat was slipped in brackish water, I'd be willing to guess that the problem was taken care as the lower unit would have been destroyed if it wasnt.
There was such a wide spread problem with this drive that Boat U.S. stepped up to the plate and petitioned Mercruiser to fix the problem. Their efforts were successful. You can read more about it here:
http://my.boatus.com/forum/forum_posts. ... sus+twins#
366 is low hours for a well maintained FWC motor. The questions now becomes: PRICE
I understand if you do not want to share the price with us; you can shop it around on boat trader or any number of other resources. The problem is not many parkers were equipped with I/O's so you probably won't have a big baseline.
You may seriously want to consider hiring a surveyor. If this is your first boat, I definitely would advise that. I would however be pretty certain that I was going to buy it first and that the price was in my ballpark and I was dealing with a reasonable owner before I coughed up the 300-400 bucks for the survey. That is chump change if there are major problems discovered. This will also possibly be a viable bargaining tool, if defects are discovered and the purchase price has to be renegotiated.
It's hard to resist, but make sure you don't psyche yourself out so much that you can't walk away if things don't go right.
I searched for about 2 years, looked at a half dozen parkers and even paid for 1 survey on a boat that I didn't purchase. It was worth it because the boat ended up having major issues that were beyond my capability of finding at the time. The rest of these boats I looked at were either snatched out from under me (sold quickly) or were way over priced. It was a sellers market back then demand for Parkers were so high that they didn't stay on the market very long.
Times have changed though. Make it work for you. Dont rush into it and for goodness sake do your home work and due diligence. Not saying it will or wont come together but if you don't get this particular one, another will come along. You will be that much more knowledgeble when it does.
Mine came along when I had stopped looking. It wasn't exactly what I wanted but it was a steal. I was already prepared (financing and surveyor at the ready) and thus I jumped in with both feet. It was a smooth process. Do you homework and don't get so exited about it that you rush into it or overlook reality.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. If you do go for a test spin, write down the serial number on the drive and motor. More on that later...
I'm not trying to sound like a know it all and I am certainly no expert but I do know from personal experience that hard lessons usually come at a steep price. I've paid my share over the years. Be armed with as much knowledge and research as possible before hand. When big $$$ are on the line concerning things you know little about, paying an expert (a good surveyor and/or mechanic) a little cheese for their imput is priceless.
You are correct, this is an awesome site with a ton of knowledge and personal experience. I only wish I knew about the site a little sooner. It no doubt would have saved me some pain...
Hopefully, we'll be congratulating you on your new ride before Christmas!
You need to do a little investigative work to make sure this problem was appropiately resolved by the owner. Since you say the boat was slipped in brackish water, I'd be willing to guess that the problem was taken care as the lower unit would have been destroyed if it wasnt.
There was such a wide spread problem with this drive that Boat U.S. stepped up to the plate and petitioned Mercruiser to fix the problem. Their efforts were successful. You can read more about it here:
http://my.boatus.com/forum/forum_posts. ... sus+twins#
366 is low hours for a well maintained FWC motor. The questions now becomes: PRICE
I understand if you do not want to share the price with us; you can shop it around on boat trader or any number of other resources. The problem is not many parkers were equipped with I/O's so you probably won't have a big baseline.
You may seriously want to consider hiring a surveyor. If this is your first boat, I definitely would advise that. I would however be pretty certain that I was going to buy it first and that the price was in my ballpark and I was dealing with a reasonable owner before I coughed up the 300-400 bucks for the survey. That is chump change if there are major problems discovered. This will also possibly be a viable bargaining tool, if defects are discovered and the purchase price has to be renegotiated.
It's hard to resist, but make sure you don't psyche yourself out so much that you can't walk away if things don't go right.
I searched for about 2 years, looked at a half dozen parkers and even paid for 1 survey on a boat that I didn't purchase. It was worth it because the boat ended up having major issues that were beyond my capability of finding at the time. The rest of these boats I looked at were either snatched out from under me (sold quickly) or were way over priced. It was a sellers market back then demand for Parkers were so high that they didn't stay on the market very long.
Times have changed though. Make it work for you. Dont rush into it and for goodness sake do your home work and due diligence. Not saying it will or wont come together but if you don't get this particular one, another will come along. You will be that much more knowledgeble when it does.
Mine came along when I had stopped looking. It wasn't exactly what I wanted but it was a steal. I was already prepared (financing and surveyor at the ready) and thus I jumped in with both feet. It was a smooth process. Do you homework and don't get so exited about it that you rush into it or overlook reality.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. If you do go for a test spin, write down the serial number on the drive and motor. More on that later...
I'm not trying to sound like a know it all and I am certainly no expert but I do know from personal experience that hard lessons usually come at a steep price. I've paid my share over the years. Be armed with as much knowledge and research as possible before hand. When big $$$ are on the line concerning things you know little about, paying an expert (a good surveyor and/or mechanic) a little cheese for their imput is priceless.
You are correct, this is an awesome site with a ton of knowledge and personal experience. I only wish I knew about the site a little sooner. It no doubt would have saved me some pain...
Hopefully, we'll be congratulating you on your new ride before Christmas!
I read thru this thread and went to the link regarding volvo pentas...which lead me to another and another and so on. It seems certain manufaturers had issue with the V.P., Abermarle etc. so blaming V.P. for certain issues seems unfair.
I plan on seriously looking at a 2000 Parker 2520 DV with a volvo penta 7.4 and a volvo dual prop outdrive, with about 650hours. I do not want to get analysis paralysis on the deal, but I have never had an I/O and have concerns.
Application: Gulf of Mexico fish dive trips with average trips 40-80miles one way. Heavy diving with 12+ tanks on average, 2 day trips fairly often. I also need to incorporate a 1,000lb fish box.
My specific question: I have read good reports and bad, especially about the V.P. composite models. Any feedback on actual users of this design with similar age and use?
I plan on seriously looking at a 2000 Parker 2520 DV with a volvo penta 7.4 and a volvo dual prop outdrive, with about 650hours. I do not want to get analysis paralysis on the deal, but I have never had an I/O and have concerns.
Application: Gulf of Mexico fish dive trips with average trips 40-80miles one way. Heavy diving with 12+ tanks on average, 2 day trips fairly often. I also need to incorporate a 1,000lb fish box.
My specific question: I have read good reports and bad, especially about the V.P. composite models. Any feedback on actual users of this design with similar age and use?
