Need some help- twin yami dual station controls

[panga]

I have posted about this in the past, but could still use some advise as this project evolves. I have a 2520 with twin yamaha 150s, with a second station on top of the pilot house, the boat had morse style twin stick (with a red and black knob, one stick for throttle one tick for gear selection) one per engine at each station. Pain in the butt to use, running a boat with four levers did not appeal to me.

Initially... we tried to re rig the boat with yahama twin binnacles first, running the four cables from each station together at a series of junction boxes under lower station, then two cables ran back to each outboard. The result was very stiff throttle and shifting, with binding up on the throttle up frequently. We decided we had to change something to make this work. My mechanic has no experience with a set up like this, not many boats around here with dual stations, so we are in need of some help.

Fishing season is here, and we need to get something done. We spent a bunch of money on the stock yamaha controls, so we would like to use any parts possible in getting this done. What should we do? My plan as of know is as follows let me know what you guys think: We are going to leave one of the yamaha dual stick binnacles up top in the second station, pick up a morse style twin stick dual function control box (two lever black knobs) and run the cables from the yamaha control up top down to the bottom station morse control, then from that control back to the outboards, scraping the junction box and trying to sell the extra yamaha control box on ebay.

QUESTIONS: the morse control box used below doesn't provide out of gear start protection does it? I saw an add on part from teleflex on some website for the twin sr morse control, do I need this, or will the yamaha control up top provide the out of gear protection since they are cabled in series?

Will this work are we forgetting anything, my mechanic is trying to get this done for me this week, fishing season is here, let me know what you all think?

 

[BradV]

The yamaha set up is going to be a little stiffer than just normal controls because you are using the cables to move an arm on the box. You can spend the money on better cables that are exactly the length that you need and it will help a little. Or go to electronic shift controls. Like the KE4 or some other system. Adding morse controls inline will essentially do the same thing that the box you have is doing just from the binnacle instead. Trust me i went through the process to. its just physics you dont have the leverage advantage when pushing 2 cables and a box etc.

 

[panga]

BradV- thanks for the tips.

After reading how Dale has the twin station setup, and is planing to add a third station with out going to the electronic controls, I just cant figure out why this cant work on my boat, I don't need it do be like driving a cadillac, I just want it to be safe and functional. With the yamaha binnacles and the junction boxes it takes a LOT of muscle to advance the throttle, and I would almost guarantee that the controls are going to break eventually. I was thinking that eliminating the bottom binnacle and the junction boxes, and going to the morse controls that I would act as two parts in one (the junction boxes and controls) would eliminate some of the resistance by cutting down both the amount of cable and the moving parts. ???? What do you guys think?

What about the start in gear protection? If I have a yamaha control up top will that provide the start in gear protection even if the controls below don't have start in gear protection?

thanks for the help?

 

[DaleH]

What about the start in gear protection? If I have a yamaha control up top will that provide the start in gear protection even if the controls below don't have start in gear protection?

FWIW, my Twin-SR, in the main helm where the ignition is, has the Start-In-Neutral feature installed. See Go2MArine for really good easy-to-access info for Morse controls.

 

[panga]

Thanks Dale, I will check that site out.

 

[BradV]

Not 100 percent sure what moves with the morse controls but i would imagine you would have a greater mechanical advnatage moving the throttle cable and the shift cables independently. Also, not sure how much time you spent looking at your shift boxes but the throttle cables ends up moving slides that lock the box in place and then uses an arm to push the throttle cable going back to the engine. If you notice it swings towards the rear instead of going in a straight line which accounts for alot of the excess strength to get it to move. or maybe just get in the gym!!!

 

[panga]

BRADV- I don't think hitting the gym is the answer, I weight in at around 230 and currently it takes the majority of my weight to move the lever, I don't think this is the best that it can be short of electronic. I just saw the yamaha control for sale used you pointed me towards in my last post a couple weeks ago, it looks just like the set up I have, except it is yamaha, mine currently is set up with generic junction boxes from consumer marine, not sure if there is a difference or not, if switching to the morse below doesn't help I may look into that. That tech marine junction box/fly by wire set up looks perfect but supposedly is no longer in production? Like I said before if it can work for other people with the same set up I dont see why it cant work for me here, not exactly sure what is going wrong, will find out soon enough I guess when we get the morse installed.

thanks

 

[BradV]

how old are your control cables? how easy do you anticipate the controls are to move? any pictures of your current set up? I can tell you exactly whats different if i saw something

 

[panga]

Thanks BradV, I will get pics of the set tomorrow Im out of town today. I don't anticipate it to be as easy as a single outboard single station with new cables by any means, but I do expect it to be functional. As is, every other time you try to push the throttle forward the thing binds up and you can only get the lever half way to full throttle. The cables and controls and junction boxes are brand new. I ordered new teleflex extreme cables for the cables from the motor to the lower controls, because they had to be replaced if eliminating the junction box, would be too short to reach the motor to lower station. Dale says they are slicker then the stock cables. Also a new morse twin sr control for lower station, hopefully it will work better.

When putting the new morse twin engine sr control are any other parts needed, like an adapter kit I saw for sale for the second station? Or are they ready to run in series out of box?

thanks for the help

 

[panga]

I tried to get pics of the previous set up by it was already disassembled. i got the morse twin engine dual function control, but it doesn't look like it want s to accept cables from second station. So.. i go to tele flex website to do some research (should have done this a while ago!) and find where they say that the dual function controls will nto work with dual stations? Dam, thats what I wanted dual function dual station, with out breaking bank with electronic.

Is this true cant do it with dual function dual station twin engine? If so I guess we are going back to the twin stick morse controls? I have got to do something this is dragging.

 

[BradV]

I think when people do the dual station dual engine they have one control that is for the shifters and one control that is for the throttles. Still 4 arms to mess with. Id try that dual station kit from yamaha and see how it goes. worst case you resell it. or just bite the bullet and get electric if you arent happy with the mechanical shift.

 

[gw204]

Did you see this?

http://www.thehulltruth.com/fishing-mis ... board.html

 

[DaleH]

I think when people do the dual station dual engine ...

Panga ... I must have missed that, running 2 OBs that is. Less that one device that is off the market (would have helped with me to run 3 helm stations) ... I've never heard of anyone successfully rigging or running mech controls for 2 stations and twin OBs.

 

[panga]

We have the cables rigged so we are going to try to make dual stick red/black morse controls work, two sets at two stations, seems like if they work individually for each engine, then it should not be a problem, just not as simple for the captain as dual station.

Question now is that if this doesn't work, should I go with this set up that is for sale on THT. I have two twin binnacle controls new, can I use them with this set up? How does it work, do I need any thing else?

here is link:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/fishing-mis ... board.html

Thanks very much

 

[BradV]

looks like it has everything except the right length control cables but you should be close if you already have them. If you arent happy with the set up youre trying now then i would just bite the bullet and go with electric.

 

[panga]

BRADV- So this set up on THT is the yamaha electric? How does it work, can I use the new yamaha binnacles that I have with it? Do you run the cables from the binnacles to this box, do cables still run to engines or is it wires, or how does it work? Thanks for the info, just trying to understand what this set up is, and I cant really find any info on the specifics on the web.

thanks

 

[seabob4]

Panga,
From what I have gathered, the standard 704 dual binnacles do not work with a dual station.

 

[BradV]

Nope the one on THT is not electric and your motors dont work with electric either. They are mechanical throttle and electric shift. The way it works is whichever binnacle you move first wins and the other one will not be able to be moved. Once its back in neutral then you can move to another station. The shift is electric because it uses a dimmer switch set up that it recieves from the mechanical box. Then it sends the signal to the shift box so 1. it cant shift from both stations 2. it doesnt get stuck half shifted. Also, you can do a manual override if you need to. Then from there it is a cable back to the motor. SO what you will feel is exactly what a normal shifter would be with a little more resistance. The electric shift part you wont have any feedback on.

However, if you go to a complete electric system it basically works the same way as the electric shift box on the yamaha. It uses an electric signal on your binnacle to push or pull the cables for the shift and the throttle. So you will have very little reistance if at all on the electric shift. Then from the shift boxes you will have cables going back to the motors. SO the motor side will stay the same but the feedback on your end will be much less. Binnacle 704 is the only thing that works with the yamaha dual station.

 

[panga]

BRADV-- Thanks for the help, if we cant get it to work okay with cables, we will try to buy this used yamaha unit, but for now I just want to fish, so if what I got works OK, I am going to want to call it good. I may buy the yamaha unit anyway and put it in on the off season.


Is the yamaha twin binnacles the 704s your talking about? They will work with this unit, so I could use the two expensive control units I already have?


Thanks

 

[BradV]

yes the expensive binnacles you currently have work together. you just take the new engine harness and it will tie in the the factory one. Then youll have to run the cables or connect them.