Permatrim - looking for feedback

[BillC]

No, I don't think the Permatrim or trim tabs are hocus-pocus. I also don't think four bladed props are either. I think it is worthy of greater study before adding these 'tweeking' parts and pieces. Apparently just what your thread is about... The whole thing is controversial and asking others about their experiences is a good thing. I am just asking questions too and throwing in a bit of sarcasm about it. No harm meant at all. I was in the boating business for 26 years - I've done some of this 'tweeking' too, years ago. The permatrim is not a new thing and as in the past, the cavitation plate on most all outboards leaves a lot to be desired. A trim fin is a must, and trim tabs are pretty much a must on most deep-V boats as well. Just kidding around being sarcastic at the same time. I'll quit.

 

[shawnee83]

Make sure you use a marine sealant around the mounting screws to stop galvanic corrosion. (Stainless vs, Aluminum) When backing down raise you trim some which helps when backing with or without PT. Following seas, NP, adjusting trim and use minimum needed trim tabs as normal. I still run the 3 blade prop so I can’t comment on that. With larger tabs and the PT my 3 blade performs well. Drilling holes in the AV plate is not a big deal. Measure like 10 times though. PT is one of the best mods I’ve made. This mod is well documented on this thread. I’d say there is at least 8 to 10 years of many people who have done the mod and have documented the results on CP. That is a pretty well researched and documented concept. I think you will be ok with the warranty on those 2012 Yamahas. Good luck.

 

[Kadman]

We love the Permatrim's on our 2520 XLD here in Southern California. They smooth out the ride in rough chop, especially when we head out in to on coming swells with moderate prevailing NW winds. See the attached photo of a rare glassy ride home from Catalina Island. Cheers, Kadman

 

[plumsal]

Well he’s steering people back he recommended that I buy a Powertech 4 blade last summer.

You are right! Ken said he has good luck with the Powertech SCE4 on other Parker’s and Contenders, running F150s like me. They are in-stock unlike the Enertias. So now I either buy new props or buy the Permatrims.

 

[Antidote]

I went with the Powertech 4 blade props Ken recommended on my 2520XLD with twin 200s. I lost 2-3MPH on the top end; but, every other operation area improved.

 

[plumsal]

Circling back on this. Thanks to everyone for all of the replies. Working with Ken @ propgods, I just ordered a pair of 4 blade SCE4 Powertech‘s (16 p) and will report back in a couple of weeks after the boat gets splashed.

 

[Bodick93]

Circling back on this. Thanks to everyone for all of the replies. Working with Ken @ propgods, I just ordered a pair of 4 blade SCE4 Powertech‘s (16 p) and will report back in a couple of weeks after the boat gets splashed.

Take lots of pictures including your GPS. Have someone with you and try to get video or at least photos of your anti ventilation plate while on plane.
I better understand how stern lifting props work now, and am wondering if the permatrim kills some of the net lift of stern lifting props by blocking the escape of the water that is sent upwards.

 

[Bodick93]

I have a 17" Rev-4 on the F300.
I have raised my motor two holes.
Being a habitual tinkerer, I took my Permatrim back off. I noted two things:. the boat runs "more freely" and I can't fully trim out my motor without inducing a porpoise. I mean trimming to the point where the steering effort is equal in both directions.
I would not raise the motor again. Objective evidence does not indicate it helped me in any way. Only hurt due to excess ventilation.

 

[12Parker2320]

When I purchased my 2012 Parker 2320 it had a permatrim on a Yamaha 250. From all my research I discovered there were two camps, those that swore by them and those who believed it was a bandaid. The later preferred raising the motor and using a 4 blade prop for better stern lift. While cleaning the boat after my last trip I discovered my cavitation plate was cracked and the permatrim was missing a bolt and several other bolts were loose. I’m guessing the cav plate cracked causing the bolts to work loose or vice versa. I have since discovered this is a pretty common occurrence with aluminum permatrims or hydrofoils. Just something to keep in mind

 

[plumsal]

Ok, Ken from Propgods top recommendation was Merc Enertia’s 15x15 but they were unavailable so we ordered Powertech SCE4‘s instead. But last minute a pair of 15 Enertia’s popped up so Ken sent me those - he included Rubex hubs and said they shift softer than the Flo-torq. Said Merc props are “more consistent” when getting a matched pair versus Powertech. Fine, whatever Ken says I do. Rubex kit very easy install. His prices are very competitive as well, especially when you consider his advice.

Ran the boat this week and these props just do EVERYTING better than my old Reliance pair. Gained 2-3mph on the top, better cruise efficiency, better hole shot, slower planning speed, good around the dock and to my surprise they were much quieter and smoother. No prop chatter at idle speed which surprised me because they are BIG props compared to the Reliance. See pics. Also surprised, they are lighter as well. Great traction too and no blow out. These are initial impressions but very pleased and money well-spent. No need for the Permatrim‘s at this point. Only downside is that they ain’t cheap.

 

[gman1001]

I've put about 3 hours on my 2300 with a newly installed Permatrim. Here are my observations. Note: boat was notoriously stern heavy with in my eyes, significant sagging when getting up on plane. F250 BTW with a Yami Saltwater Series 2 recommended by @GoodChance here on this board. (wealth of knowledge)

Observations:
- Boat jumps up on plane with less RPM required
- Motor/Stern seems far less 'heavy' when getting up on plane. Passengers comment motor does not appear to be going underwater any more.
- Boat seems to turn on a dime now. Carves like knife when on plane.

I have no data to back any of this up, but based on my and other observations, this purchase was a WIN.

 

[grouperjim]

Follow the provided instructions. Use 5200 slow cure on all contact areas. Hand tighten/snug bolts. Clean up with good quality rags and paint thinner.

Wait a week for 5200 to cure to avoid wash out. Never an issue with top or bottom mount.

 

[grouperjim]

Follow the provided instructions. Use black 5200 slow cure on all contact areas to avoid galvanic corrosion. Hand tighten/snug bolts. Clean up with good quality rags and paint thinner.

Wait a week for 5200 to cure to avoid wash out. Never an issue with top or bottom mount.

 

[plumsal]

I've put about 3 hours on my 2300 with a newly installed Permatrim. Here are my observations. Note: boat was notoriously stern heavy with in my eyes, significant sagging when getting up on plane. F250 BTW with a Yami Saltwater Series 2 recommended by @GoodChance here on this board. (wealth of knowledge)

Observations:
- Boat jumps up on plane with less RPM required
- Motor/Stern seems far less 'heavy' when getting up on plane. Passengers comment motor does not appear to be going underwater any more.
- Boat seems to turn on a dime now. Carves like knife when on plane.

I have no data to back any of this up, but based on my and other observations, this purchase was a WIN.

That's great - but you may have achieved a similar result with a stern-lifting prop. I got there with an Enertia recommended by Ken @ propgods but I was limited because I run F150s. You can try a lot more props with an F250 since it can swing a bigger prop. Merc Enertia's, Rev 4s (4 blade), Powertech OSF4, etc. The Permatrim is definitely a good solution, but I was really surprised with the change a prop can make.

 

[Tunify]

Keep an eye on your Permatrim fasteners! While draining my lower unit lube yesterday, I discovered two of the mounting bolt heads were sheared off. The bolts and locking nuts were still held in place by the mounting adhesive. This Permatrim was installed before I acquired the boat last fall. Over torqued at install?

 

[12Parker2320]

Keep an eye on your Permatrim fasteners! While draining my lower unit lube yesterday, I discovered two of the mounting bolt heads were sheared off. The bolts and locking nuts were still held in place by the mounting adhesive. This Permatrim was installed before I acquired the boat last fall. Over torqued at install?
View attachment 33297View attachment 33298

Interesting, for whatever reason it’s always the two most aft bolts that get loose

 

[Cman60]

The torque on a Permatrim must be huge. It’s a cheap fix to a serious problem. So it’s not surprising that there are issues.

 

[Tunify]

I'd be surprised if the forces acting on the Permatrim broke these screws. The unit is still tightly bonded to the AV plate with adhesive. I suspect the fasteners may have been over tightened and/or had quality issues when installed.

 

[A-K]

Possible a heavy person stepped on it?

About 500 hours on my permatrim. It’s still structurally sound…knock on wood.

Some good points on this thread both pros and cons. But I would install another one without second thought.

I run the permatrim, 12x18, tabs, and 4 blade prop. The ride is much better.

 

[plumsal]

Interesting, for whatever reason it’s always the two most aft bolts that get loose

Maybe they should spec larger aft bolts for that reason? Would be an easy modification.