pilot house capsizes

[ReelyNauti]

gets the door prize, thanks for explaining and this is the valid point as well as poor decisions....

 

[DaleH]

as most of you know i was a helicopter search and rescue swimmer.

the moral of that story is to NEVER inflate your PFD, nor wear a buoyant PFD inside of an enclosed space. for those new to cabin style boats, this info may sound a little strange, especially if coming out of a CC.

Wow, thank you for posting that info Jim ! I'll make sure to keep a hank of 20' or so of floating opoly line to affix the Class 1s to, right by the door (on the outside), so they float up as a group if/when needed.

 

[itguy]

Last summer while in Maine, I was warned by, I assume a Coastie, or some sort of harbor patrol, that any children under 10 had to have a life preserver on at all times. I immediately put the vests that were sitting on the port side cabin seat on my two grand children, and he left.

How does one respond to this? The kids are constantly going in and out of the cabin.

BTW - we were at anchor in a no-waves natural harbor known as the Basin, for you folks familiar with the Sebasco and Winnegance Bay area.

 

[grouperjim]

if you flip, grab a hand hold, wait for the in rush of water to subside, pick an exit, while maintaining your hand hold, hand over hand your way out and follow the bubbles to the surface.

inflate your PFD once completely clear of the vessel or obstructions.

how you manage or stage your PFD's is up to you.

 

[itguy]

grouperjim,

I understand what you are saying, but according to the harbor patrol my grandkids had to be wearing their vests even while in the cabin. Wouldn't this represent a significant danger to them?

 

[BradV]

It depends on how young the kids are. I think under 6 in florida but it could be a few years older. Anyways maybe look into inflatable pfds for them that are manually activated that way if they are in the cabin and something happens you can get them out. Man that would be a scary situation with kids that are too young to swim or deal with that. Not sure many adults could either.

 

[grouperjim]

.......... any children under 10 had to have a life preserver on at all times.

...........How does one respond to this? The kids are constantly going in and out of the cabin.

.......sorry, we both posted at the same time.


different states have different laws for the wearing of PFD's for children. i have a 3 yo myself.

when assessing risk, and considering the nature of children, i think there would be a greater risk of losing sight of a child and them falling overboard rather than drowning in an inverted cabin. so, laws aside, it would make sense for them to wear the PFD. but you as a parent are now aware of the inherit risks of an inverted cabin, and can take action to get your kids out.

if i remember correctly, i think in FL any vessel over 26 ft.........no PFD's required to be worn. my 3 yo wears hers at all times while outside the cabin........most of the time she's laying up front (inside) watching her DVD player.

i'm kind of busy ripping out a townhouse at the moment.......i'm sure Brad or someone will look up some specific laws.

 

[BradV]

Children under 6 years of age must wear a USCG–approved Type I, II, or III PFD at all times while on any vessel less than 26 feet in length that is underway upon Florida waters. (“Underway” means any time except when the vessel is anchored, moored, docked, or aground.)

Done!

 

[grouperjim]

you da man!

........my wife is wrong about me. now if i can just remember the trash goes to the curb on Tues/Fri, and an occasional toilet seat violation........i'll be good to go.

 

[Bryan 2530]

In CT they are not required to wear lifejackets if they are in a cabin, but they are required to wear them outside the cabin while underway until age 12.

 

[JTR]

It has been explained to me by FWC that children have to wear a PFD while on deck. They do not need to wear a PFD in an enclosed cabin.

 

[Phil]

In hindsite, knowing that the Defiance boat floats and has an air pocket, the person who pried the door open made exactly the wrong move—he let the water in, fast. What if there were children or somebody injured? Had he left the door closed, the water would have leaked in slower. Eventually the water level would equalize and the door would have opened easily. They would have time to compose themselves and get ready to exit. They would have realized that wearing a pfd is not a good idea as the water level rises to their waist. Exiting the boat with a pfd in hand would be a better move. Leaving the boat without a pfd is a bad move as the captain’s son found out.

So I would have to conclude that an enclosed pilot house is safer than an open boat in a capsize situation. In an open boat, one second you are breathing air, the next second you are underwater. If the water is cold enough, you might have an involuntary reflex and breathe in water. You might bang your head on the hardtop/t-top or outboards. You might come up under the boat where there are no air pockets. With an enclosed pilot house, you have more time to assess the situation and make the correct move.

 

[tara11]

As I read all this accendent story and all the comments on the various web sites, I have to ask, what is the best PFD, we have what I would consider very good Sterns vests, but now I am thinking we might want to get the good inflating ones, The Coast Guard here wear these ones that look nice and have a section it looks like fills with air to hold there heads above water, do they make one for kids (11) and adults that are made for offshore and we can change the fill air once a year ? May seem like a dumb question, but I do not know the answer, as I let my son and wife read that incendent that happened, it makes me rethink how we store and wear PFD, we are doing a lot wrong, and had no clue So where would one look to get good self inflating ?
In Calif, kids have to wear till 12, but can and 11 yr old wear and is it a good idea for him to have one he pulls the thingy to inflate his vest, my son is a strong swimmer, the wife not so good I really thought we were doing the right stuff the way we store and when we have them close by, but now I really think it might be a better idea to have the air filling ones on.

 

[itguy]

Phil,

The side windows on the cabin are not imbedded into the fiberglass, since they are designed to slide on tracks. Do you think they would hold together under the water pressure if the cabin were upside down? I wonder if Parker has done any testing of this inverted cabin scenario.

Anyone heard of such tests?

 

[grouperjim]

Phil,

........... I wonder if Parker has done any testing of this inverted cabin scenario.

Anyone heard of such tests?

have not heard of any such tests.

FWIW the military helicopters i flew in operationally had windows that with the activation of a release mechanism, the entire window frame (window and all) would fall away. some were also designed to be kicked or punched out.

i have removed and reinstalled some of the cabin windows on a 2320 which is the same cabin as your 2120 and can tell you they are securely fastened and in all likelihood are NOT coming out whether due to the in rush of sea water or you punching or kicking them.

i can tell you from real world experience that if you go inverted, after the water pressure is equal on both sides of the cabin, meaning the initial in rush of water has occurred, minus any damage from an impact, all the openings including the door will function just as they did when they were right side up. you need to familiarize yourself with the openings that are big enough for you to fit through. i don't think you are going to get through the side windows, so that leaves the door and possibly the front windows.

FWIW the 2520 door and front windows are substantially bigger than the windows/door of the 2320/2120.

in the scenario of the Defiance, the problems they had with the cabin door occurred because they attempted to open it prior to the initial in rush of sea water.

 

[BradV]

I always ride with my door open. I dont think I have ever been out with it open even in the nast rough stuff. Oh well off to detail the boat. Hope none of use have to use this info

 

[Doug Dorsey]

Bottom line is the captain should not have left the harbor in those conditions, especially with kids on the boat. He made a bad call and almost paid heavily for it.

 

[ReelyNauti]

wow doug u win the prize...

I started this post to make a point and most went off on tangents like vests and the door open or closed or auto inflated vs bla bla bla..

i was glad it got 2000 plus hits....but most missed the point it was CAPTAIN ERROR......

so u win...UI saved your own life...!!!!!