Taking off (hole shot) issues ..........

[Hannibal]

Hi all. In the slow and steady process of dialing in this boat both asthetically and performance wise, I am looking into an area of the boat that I'd like to improve on. It's a 1991 2110 W/A with an 03 Evinrude 225HP.

When taking off, this boat noses up (or rather squats down) big time. This is further exagerated when I have people sitting on the bench seat I installed. Being mounted towards the back of the boat, I understand why this happens but even when it's just two of us riding along, you really have to throttle into the thing to get her up on plane. She wants to nose up big time and requires a lot of throttle to settle down.

Now, this may be the norm for these type of boats so there may be no avenue/need to improve on this; however, in doing my normal window shopping through various boating catalogs, I am always seeing things like the "hydrofoil" or similar items you mount near your propeller that are supposed to improve on this.

The claim to get you on plane quicker or to help keep your nose down during acceleration, etc. Example: http://www.basspro.com/StingRay&153...ilizers-for-Boat-Motors/product/45204/-961098

When I asked my mechanic (well former mechanic) about them and my desire to improve this issue, he said that Parker and the motor manufacturers have been in business for a long time and if these things did as they claimed, they would be installed from the factory. I guess that logic makes sense; however, I've quickly figured out my mechanic (former) isn't the best source for factual information.

Are these things (or some alternative) really benificial? Are there better options for improving this issue?

Thanks in advance.

 

[HOTPURSUIT]

I take it, that when you are trying to get the boat on plane that you have the motor trimmed all the way down, if so investing in a set of trim tabs would not only solve the problem but would allow you to level the boat when you have an inbalanced load. More exspensive but alot more performance. Most boats 21" and under normally don't come with them but if you are having those types of problems taking off in my opinion that would be the solve. They have come out with cheaper automatic tabs but I have no exsperience with them

 

[Hannibal]

I take it, that when you are trying to get the boat on plane that you have the motor trimmed all the way down, if so investing in a set of trim tabs would not only solve the problem but would allow you to level the boat when you have an inbalanced load. More exspensive but alot more performance. Most boats 21" and under normally don't come with them but if you are having those types of problems taking off in my opinion that would be the solve. They have come out with cheaper automatic tabs but I have no exsperience with them

Yes, I am trimmed all the way down. Even when not carrying people in the back (for example, sitting on the bench seat), it will nose up and it's a concentrated effort to get her on plane. In my mind, simply accelerating smoothly even via low RPM to build speed should put me on plane - but this doesn't happen (unless it would just take a long time).

I mean it makes sense as to why it does it. I can imagine the weight of the motor is substational in comparison to the rest of the boat. And since I don't really carry any weight in the bow, it's only natural to nose up. It just seems like A LOT. Whereas on other types of boat, I don't see it nearly as pronounced.

It may in fact be "normal" but it's something I'd like to reduce if possible/feasible.

 

[DaleH]

Get an SE Sport model 300 airfoil wing that bolts onto the vent plate. They have been tested and proven to be the best foil plate design going. Just bolt it on, don't get their 'snap plate', it doesn't work and you need maximum attachment hold for a V6 motor. Others here have had success with Permatrims.

 

[Megabyte]

Bennett M120 Sport Tabs.

http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/catalog.php?vID=78

 

[DaleH]

Get an SE Sport model 300 airfoil wing that bolts onto the vent plate.

The $60 option ...

Bennett M120 Sport Tabs.

The $500 option ... though clearly a really good option, with Bennett a superior product to Lenco or any other tab design or maker. I wouldn't run an offshore boat without them.

 

[Hannibal]

Thanks guys. I am one that usually defaults to "you get what you pay for" and most times go with the better/more expensive product. In this instance, however, is one (the $500 option) overkill for my needs?

Nearly all of my boating is limited to the rivers with the occasional trip out into the Bay. Haven't been offshore and have no real interest. Oddly enough, I am a boat owner who gets seasick. LOL. So I usually stick around the shoreline for the most part.

For my needs, is the $60 option the right choice? I also have to keep in mind that she's an older boat and even though we've done a lot to "new" her up, this isn't a year old 25xx that I will likely have for another 10 years (where the $500 option could be considered an investment of sorts).

 

[windknotnc]

Sorry I am a little late chiming in....You didn't mention anything about your prop or rpm. You have plenty of engine for that hull, so my very first question surrounds how is it propped. At WOT how many rpm are you turning? You should be in the 5500 range. You mention hole shot a couple times. As a general rule to improve hole shot or time to plane you reduce the pitch of the prop. It is a balance of performance and rpm. What type and pitch prop are you running? The 2 suggestions given above will definitely help, but if you have a setup problem that is prop related, then you really have not solved it. The modified V hull should jump on up pretty quick, especially with 225 horses. It is designed with a flatter stern to create lift, thus navigate faster and with more response in shallower water. In response to tabs or foil, I don't think a foil is going to solve your problem, particularly if you are not propped correctly.

 

[DaleH]

Good point - cheack your RPMs, as I believe that puppy could be a 6,000 RPM motor, and if so, you should be ideally turning no less than 5800 with std gear, 1/2 fuel and 2 guys on board, provided the running bottom is clean. But gain, check what that model OB MAX RPMs are. Most boats are over-pitched (too high a pitch number).

 

[Hannibal]

Thanks guys. Quite honestly, you are getting into stuff a little bit above me (I am relatively new to boating) so I might not have all the correct answers for you.

I am not sure about the specifics of my prop. It was gone over prior to purchase by a trusted marine mechanic (who performed the informal sea trial/test). He said everything checked out just fine and the boat performed very well from an engine performance standpoint. I understand that such a statement isn't the end all be all but it's what I had at the time.

With regards to RPM, I am not sure of what exactly WOT gives me. Just haven't paid THAT much attention to it - but it sounds like I need to. It is definately somewhere between 5500 and 6000 rpms. I will be sure to note it next time I am out.

Performance wise - she runs about 42-43mph at WOT in good water (fully loaded). She does have old bottom paint though. The throttle response is excellent IMO - both down low and adjusting from cruise to WOT, etc. Outside of the actually taking off from a stopped position, I think she performs very well. And again, the taking off/hole shot issues my be 100% normal given the variables of my boat. There may not be anything out of line. Again, it's a new process for me so I am not certain.

 

[sparky]

Where are you located? If there's a CP member nearby, I'm sure they could give you 30 minutes of their time, and go for a sea trial...

 

[Hannibal]

Where are you located? If there's a CP member nearby, I'm sure they could give you 30 minutes of their time, and go for a sea trial...

Southern MD (specifically Waldorf area). I usually put in out of Golden Beach, MD and run up and down the Pautuxent between Golden Beach and Solomns Island.

 

[gw204]

If you ever launch at Solomons, I'm about 2 minutes off of Rt. 4 in St. Leonard and would be happy to help you try to figure this out.

Just because you are hitting the proper WOT RPM doesn't necessarily you are propped correctly. On my old 25' Grady I was initially hitting 5800 w/ 13-3/4 x 19 wheels. Changed to 15-1/4 x 19 and raised the engines (they were too low from the day it was new). WOT RPM dropped to a bit under 5500, but my cruise speed went up, top speed went up, minimum planing speed went down and time to plane went down. It was like getting a whole new boat!!!!

I bet the solution to your problem lies in your prop.

 

[Hannibal]

If you ever launch at Solomons, I'm about 2 minutes off of Rt. 4 in St. Leonard and would be happy to help you try to figure this out.

Just because you are hitting the proper WOT RPM doesn't necessarily you are propped correctly. On my old 25' Grady I was initially hitting 5800 w/ 13-3/4 x 19 wheels. Changed to 15-1/4 x 19 and raised the engines (they were too low from the day it was new). WOT RPM dropped to a bit under 5500, but my cruise speed went up, top speed went up, minimum planing speed went down and time to plane went down. It was like getting a whole new boat!!!!

I bet the solution to your problem lies in your prop.

Are you near Vera's? Isn't that St. Leonard's Creek? We cruise up that way semi-frequently for a bite to eat while out on the water.

 

[gw204]

I'm closer to Stoney's Broomes Island.

 

[DaleH]

Not to sound like a smart aleck, but where you admit to being relatively new to boating ... make sure you apply some OOMPH to get that boat up onto plane. I don't push the throttle FAST, but I will continuously push & apply ooomph & throttle as revs build so that I get to > 3K RPMs as soon as I can without doing a "jack rabiit"-like start. You should find her start to plane around 3500 RPMs or so. Youll get the feel of it.

FWIW, I once had a 24' boat with 225hp and she just went right up onto plane instantly. No trim tabs. I'd also experess again that the $60 fin option might just help you out and it sure won't hurt ANYTHING. Plus, with that much power at your disposal, fins aid in stability and tracking in turns.

 

[SEA YA]

After 54 years of boating and 20 boats, I still go peddle to the medal to get on plane and then back off as soon as I attain it, which is normally very quick unless I have a strong opposing tide or current. Tried the whale tail on a 150 Merc which came with my 1987 1801, didn't make a difference, repowered the same boat with a 90 Johnson, can't believe what a great difference, out performs the Merc by a wide margin.
As I said, pedal to the medal, you are wasting gas trying to get on plane slowly.

 

[Hannibal]

Just to update, I stopped at BPS a few weeks back on my way up I-95 (just north of Richmond) and shopped their isles. After reading on what was available, I picked a non-drill version hydrofoil. It was spec'd for a HP range of motor and stated it addressed the issues I previously posted about.

So I took the plunge (it was about $110) and installed it last weekend and quickly took the boat out for a trial run. She performed great. It certainly didn't eliminate the "nosing up" but I think that's virtually impossible. However, it did significantly improve it. It jumps on plane much quicker and with less throttle. It also seems to cruise at a slightly slower speed/RPM but that could just be in my head.

Install took about 20-30 minutes simply for the fact of the akward location of the 6 screws that needed to be tightend down. It was a simple process - just a lot of little turns with a hex key to get it tight.

All in all - I think it was money well spent.

Here is the link: http://www.basspro.com/StingRay-Stealth ... 7/-1759433

Just noticed some of the poor reviews on the product. Thankfully, I haven't experienced any of these issues. I will agree that the directions are a touch basic but using common sense seemed easy enough. I will say that when I tightend down the bolts, I took turns (similar to doing lug nuts on a car wheel) to make sure I wasn't overloading on side. I would work my way around the product giving equal turns. I didn't have any cracking issues and the unit is still there after several days out on the water. It's on there solid.

 

[jacksdad]

Good job. Had a Doel Fin on a heavy and underpowered duck boat a few years back, made a HUGE difference but was a small boat/motor (15hp Yammie 4str on a TDB 14).

The 21SE i sea trialed before buying my 23 had a very definite nose up attitude when launching. Not awful but definitely noticeable. 23er doesn't do it which I suppose is just a matter of more weight forward of the motor.