USCG Documented Boats

[Antidote]

Has any one looked into USCG Documenting a 2520? The requirement to be able to Document a vessel is 5 tons net. My boat on the trailer, full fuel and water tanks comes in just over 10,000 lbs. That includes trailer weight; but, doesn't include the 12 passengers the placard allows for, fishing gear, ice, Ect.

 

[Roll Tide]

Tonnage as related to documentation has nothing to do with the weight of the boat. Its the volume in area the vessel can hold.

There is a formula the USCG goes by. Basically its Length x Beam x Depth (Rub Rail To Bottom Of Hull) x .67 For Powerboats

 

[Andy]

Tonnage as related to documentation has nothing to do with the weight of the boat. Its the volume in area the vessel can hold.

There is a formula the USCG goes by. Basically its Length x Beam x Depth (Rub Rail To Bottom Of Hull) x .67 For Powerboats

'Ditto's' on Roll Tide's information.... The 'tonnage' is a 'Volume' measurement; not weight...
Our last two boats were Documented, (larger boats) and in the 1970's, 1980's and much of the 1990's there was an advantage to Documentation, as it negated the need for State Registration. That is no longer the case in most states, including North Carolina..... In North Carolina, if your boat is Documented, they also require having State Registration on top of the Documentation.... follow the 'money-trail'... the 'States' what more of your money....

 

[Antidote]

As I understand the SC laws, if the a boat is Documented with the Coast Guard the hull doesn't need to be registered with the state. If the hull has outboard engine(s) the engine(s) must be registered with the state.

I understand the volume formula; however, where are the measurements taken? The distance of depth (rub rail to bottom) changes over the length of the hull. Also, are the length measurements taken at the rub rail or the water line? How would a flotation bracket factor in?

 

[knotflying]

You can document your boat. Having had a documented boat and cruised through many states, the rules do vary by state for their registration requirements. In general, if you spend time ranging from 30 to 90 days (depending on state) a state registration is required. When documented state numbers are not required to be displayed on the bow. However the state registration sticker is required to be clearly displayed on a window. Does anyone keep track of this, you may ask? Rarely. Having a sticker of at least one state will usually suffice. Having none and you will get nailed. Michigan is the worst. If you travel through their state and you have no state registration showing they will claim you owe them the sales tax! Usually if you are documented there is not state title either. Your documentation is the title.

 

[pelagic2530]

What’s your ultimate goal in documenting the vessel? If it’s to avoid paying the state registration fee, it’s not worth it financially and headache-wise. If you’re planning on using the boat commercially, an OUPV certificate would likely be your best bet provided you don’t intend to carry more than 6 passengers IN ADDITION to you and your crew. More than 6, and I think documentation is your only route; however I’ll warn you that dealing with the admin side of the USCG is almost always a huge PITA.

As far as tonnage measurements, I’d suggest contacting Parker, they likely have certificates of admeasurement on file for their boats.

 

[Roll Tide]

As I understand the SC laws, if the a boat is Documented with the Coast Guard the hull doesn't need to be registered with the state. If the hull has outboard engine(s) the engine(s) must be registered with the state.

I understand the volume formula; however, where are the measurements taken? The distance of depth (rub rail to bottom) changes over the length of the hull. Also, are the length measurements taken at the rub rail or the water line? How would a flotation bracket factor in?

Brackets don't count, the pilothouse doesn't count, anything in the hull such as fuel or water tanks would subtract from the volume.

Search for USCG form CG-5397. Truthfully save yourself the trouble as any boat under approx 27 ft will not be 5 NT

 

[Billyjack20]

my 2530 is documented the bank used required ,have had no issues in Florida

 

[dstanl01]

Just sold my 28 and the guy buying it had it documented. Bank wouldn’t send me funds until the documentation went through.

 

[CGSailor]

My last boat (Farallon 25) was documented when I bought it. Dealing with the National Vessel Documentation Center to transfer the title to me was expensive and frustrating, to put it mildly. (I was not on active duty at that point. And when I was I was an operator and had nothing to do with this branch of the Coast Guard...for good reason.) The guy I sold it to gave up and put state numbers on the boat. The annual recertification (renewal) was easy and free at first, but then they started charging a fee.

I agree with the comments above. Some of the states have gotten very aggressive about collecting taxes and require some payment in addition to the documentation. I liked having the documentation numbers and hailing port on the boat, but there wasn't much of an advantage beyond that. Unless you have a specific circumstance in mind I doubt the juice is worth the squeeze.

 

[gregd123]

My 2520 is documented. Not that difficult to do. Initial cost is $133.

From January 1, 2019 to December 31, 2021 renewal costs $26 a year and recreational boaters can select a validity period, from one to five years.

Beginning January 1, 2022 recreational Certificates of Documentation will only be issued for a validity period of five years. The new five-year documentation is the only renewal option available and is fixed at $130.

 

[PastTheBarb]

My understanding of tonnage is displacement and measured from the waterline down. Its the weight of the water that the boat displaces. This will change with how the boat is loaded but Im guessing the CG doesn't split those hairs.
What Ive found is Gross Tonnage = (.5 x L x W x D) divided by 100. D is from the rub rail to the keel at midships.

 

[Roll Tide]

My 2520 is documented. Not that difficult to do. Initial cost is $133.

From January 1, 2019 to December 31, 2021 renewal costs $26 a year and recreational boaters can select a validity period, from one to five years.

Beginning January 1, 2022 recreational Certificates of Documentation will only be issued for a validity period of five years. The new five-year documentation is the only renewal option available and is fixed at $130.

Interesting that a 25' would be considered over the 5 NT. I just did a search through the USCG PSIX and found more than a few 25' Parkers that are indeed documented. Its looks like most of them use 4.5' for the depth measurement so if go by that measurement it would be around 7+ GT so I guess that would make the 5 NT.

 

[Roll Tide]

My understanding of tonnage is displacement and measured from the waterline down. Its the weight of the water that the boat displaces. This will change with how the boat is loaded but Im guessing the CG doesn't split those hairs.
What Ive found is Gross Tonnage = (.5 x L x W x D) divided by 100. D is from the rub rail to the keel at midships.

The .5 would be for a sailboat, powerboats would be .67

 

[Andy]

Brackets don't count, the pilothouse doesn't count, anything in the hull such as fuel or water tanks would subtract from the volume.

Search for USCG form CG-5397. Truthfully save yourself the trouble as any boat under approx 27 ft will not be 5 NT

Agree (mostly! ☺) There are a couple 25' and 27' boats that qualify, but it does not make 'cents' $$ (☺) to do it....

 

[Antidote]

Agree (mostly! ☺) There are a couple 25' and 27' boats that qualify, but it does not make 'cents' $$ (☺) to do it....

Andy,

It does make $'s and cents in SC. We pay annual Property Tax. Because it has a berth, a head and a cooking surface it qualifies for the "second home tax" which is still assessed @ 6% Vs. 10+% for non-second home boat. Which for this year I paid just under $1300 for the hull and just over $560 for the engines.

Steve

 

[Antidote]

My 2520 is documented. Not that difficult to do. Initial cost is $133.

From January 1, 2019 to December 31, 2021 renewal costs $26 a year and recreational boaters can select a validity period, from one to five years.

Beginning January 1, 2022 recreational Certificates of Documentation will only be issued for a validity period of five years. The new five-year documentation is the only renewal option available and is fixed at $130.

What state are you in? I'm still trying to clarify wether I will have to pay County Taxes on a Documented Boat in SC.

 

[Andy]

Andy,
I does make $'s and cents in SC. We pay annual Property Tax. Because it has a berth, a head and a cooking surface it qualifies for the "second home tax" which is still assessed @ 6% Vs. 10+% for non-second home boat.

Hi Antidote, thank you; I understand, and agree with you; I should have been more specific about Federal Documentation, and the differences in how it works in different states.... (explained near the bottom of this rant ☺).
In fact, I lived in Greenwood SC in the 1970's and had a boat on Lake Greenwood. I was shocked when we moved (us and the boat) back to North Carolina. It was nearly impossible to make the transfer. Back then, South Carolina required a 'title/license/registration for the boat. SC also required a separate registration/title for the outboard motor (that was a new one to me!). And, on top of that they did NOT require any title/license/registration for the trailer! Making all this work and transferring it all to North Carolina was a real challenge (aka pita) back then.... Different states; different circumstances...
I mentioned all this to reinforce your comments...
Our last two boats were Federally Documented, and with the initial cost of the documentation process (I believe around $300.00 back then), and the fact that we had the last boat for 28 years, as you pointed out it was WELL worth the money and effort to pay the documentation fee, as NC did not, back then, require State numbers/registration, if the boat were documented. (we did not have to pay the yearly state registration money so we were far ahead of the game money-wise). North Carolina changed 'the rules' for the last three years we had that last boat, and started requiring documented boats to also PAY for state registration (one more way to reach deeper into the tax payers pocket)... They required the paid-for registration 'sticker' to be on the boat, but not the numbers.... In essence I (and everyone else I knew said ' s _ _ _ _ them',) refused to pay for the state registration. I knew I was selling the boat, and simply refused to comply... (I wonder if there is a statute of limitations on such?... I might hear a knocking on my door ☺) So as you mentioned, there are places and circumstances where Federal Documentation makes sense, if for nothing else, not paying both Fed Doc, and annual State Registration.... And factoring in the 'Second Home' issue, makes even more sense in some places depending on the tax status

 

[Antidote]

What’s your ultimate goal in documenting the vessel? If it’s to avoid paying the state registration fee, it’s not worth it financially and headache-wise. If you’re planning on using the boat commercially, an OUPV certificate would likely be your best bet provided you don’t intend to carry more than 6 passengers IN ADDITION to you and your crew. More than 6, and I think documentation is your only route; however I’ll warn you that dealing with the admin side of the USCG is almost always a huge PITA.

As far as tonnage measurements, I’d suggest contacting Parker, they likely have certificates of admeasurement on file for their boats.

Not for commercial use. My ultimate goal is to pay less to the G-man (woman) to have more money for fuel.

 

[Antidote]

Andy,

SC still doesn't require a trailer registration and does require to register and title outboard motors. As I am reading the SCDNR website, documented vessels do not have to pay State Registration which nulls the County Tax on the hull; however, I still have to maintain the Registration on the outboards. IF and a big "IF" this is the case it will save me about $1000 a year to document my boat.

Steve

https://www.dnr.sc.gov/boating/Titling_and_Registration/Documented_Vessels.html