Won't Pee

[Mike2043]

Well I was finishing up my spring maintenance and got to starting the engine. I have a Yamaha Z175TXRZ HPDI. Well I got the giant garbage can and filled her up over the water intakes and fired it up. She started right up but won’t pee. I tried blowing some air threw the pee tube and I got bubbles in the bucket. She was peeing fine when I did the fall maintenance so I don’t know how the water pump could go from just sitting. I only ran her for a minute or two, I did not want it to over heat.
Any suggestions?

 

[Bryan 2530]

Run it a little longer, it should pee.

 

[John_Madison CT]

How about a little Flomax?

 

[rplas48]

You really need to have the water level several inches higher than the intakes as the water pump is mounted at the level of the anti cavitation plate and needs to be flooded.

 

[Mike2043]

How about a little Flomax?

HAHA-- To many side effects...

rplas48--- I bet that is it' I did not have the water that high but I did wonder if those were intakes also..

Thanks
Guy's...

 

[Catfish]

Mike2043

Did you try to hook up a hose to the upper engine flush port also. The water may have evaporated in the block during lay-up and the thermostat is closed. And yes, those are water intakes that is why they wont pee with muffs on, the water has to be above those.

Catfish

 

[Mike2043]

Got It.. Came this morning and filled the bucket all the way up and she pped like she was taking Flowmax ..

Thanks everyone.

 

[channel_surfer]

How long did you run the impeller dry?

I have had the same problem, although we were trying muffs. Just wouldn't get the telltale going on the muffs. Was great when we pulled it out of the water. The few minutes on the hose killed the impeller.

My dealer says they have luck using a tee fitting and feeding the water through both the muffs and the flush fitting at the same time.

We just just a huge garbage can now and make sure it's full.

 

[Megabyte]

Not related to any of these posts... but here is something I observed recently that might be of interest.

I was working on my boat in my local yard when I saw someone working on a Grady Sailfish about 50 yards away from me. The owner (I'm guessing) had the cowlings off a pair of F225's and was performing his spring service.

I saw the oil get changed, the plugs were changed, and probably a bunch of other stuff. I'm thinking, "that guy must know what he is doing!"...

Awhile later I noticed the owners pickup parked very close to the boat with the hood open and jumper cables running from the pickup to the Grady. :roll: I'm grimmacing and just waiting for the battery explosion... but thankfully, it didn't happen.

A little while later I heard the unmuffled sound of an F225 roar to life. I look over, and had to blink several times... I didn't see a water hose going to the motor, or anywhere near the motor. :?

The motor ran for several minutes as I watched, a feeling of pain going through me as I could sense the impeller melting inside of the housing.
Both motors were started, revved, allowed to idle, then finally stopped for a total run time of about 10 minutes each... and not a drop of water was to be seen anywhere (and it was available less than 50' away).

I almost went over to the guy to query him about the practice of running the motors dry, but thought better of it.
After all... four-strokes don't need water do they? :roll:

 

[Megabyte]

little wonder it costs $400 to "service" a 4-s :shock:

Well... I suppose that $800 saved will eventually be spent for the tow, haul, and a mechanic to replace the ruined parts after the first trip out.

(why did yer expect the batteries to blow up?)

Jumper cable(s) sparking in a confined, enclosed space... :shock:

 

[rangerdog]

Spark still a problem with AGMs and newer non serviceable batteries?

 

[Megabyte]

Spark still a problem with AGMs and newer non serviceable batteries?

It's not the spark specifically. It's the ignition of the products of off-gassing.
In this respect, AGM's are the safest type as they will only release gasses if overcharged and pressurized. The batteries are alleged to retain and recombine gasses from the normal charging process.

But... in the enclosed and confined space of a boat bilge, you could have flammable vapors present other than those from a charging battery (of any type). Google "battery explosion" to see more.

Caution should always be exercised in enclosed and confined spaces.

 

[rangerdog]

That's all why I put in this hatch, access and airflow:

 

[Megabyte]

That's all why I put in this hatch, access and airflow:

You are ahead of the game. :wink:

 

[Pboettger]

Back to the water pump question. Six weeks ago I bought a used Parker 21 SE, and she peed fine on the test run. Two weeks ago I started my engine, a 2003 Yamaha 150 2S, in the yard just to run her for a few minutes with the cuffs on the lower intake like I had done previously with a 90 hp mariner I used to have. I noticed quickly that she wasn't peeing, so I cut her off and let her sit for a few minutes, then tried again. This time I let it run for a few minutes, thinking maybe the thermostat needed to kick in. I let it run until the alarm came on and noticed a small amount of blue smoke coming out of the pee hole. I cut her off right away at that point. What is the likleyhood that I burned up the impella?

I can't retest it right now with the flusher on the upper intake, because it is away having the bottom painted. I asked my local mechanic about the cost of replacing the pump, and he quoted 100 dollars, including parts and labor. Is this reasonable and would you just go ahead with it? It was changed last 2 years ago according to the previous owner. As always, this site has been fantastic.

Peter

 

[Megabyte]

I asked my local mechanic about the cost of replacing the pump, and he quoted 100 dollars, including parts and labor. Is this reasonable and would you just go ahead with it?

Sounds reasonable. (cost around here is higher than that)
Even though you were told it was replaced 2 years ago, at least this way you will know for sure you are starting fresh.

If the motor didn't pee on the muffs, you might not have enough water volume to cool it properly, so you have a couple of options...
Buy a set of muffs that have two water feeds (one on each side), or drop the lower unit into a 30 gal drum so it draws water in the same manner as it does in the lake/river/bay/ocean.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pboettger]

Thanks. On further reflection, it make sense justg to go ahead and start new. But its nice to knbow about the water tank thing, so that I don't burn anything up in the future.

Peter

 

[Ranger Tim]

Anyone that has done a Yamaha water pump impeller replacement is familiar with the fragility of the pump housing. It is PLASTIC! Mine was never run dry and a good stream has always accompanied starting (with a specific exception - see #2 below). When replaced last year after four years and four hundred hours, my pump housing had areas that appeared to have melted or suffered damage from heat. Momentary dry friction from the impeller may not kill the rubber itself but is murder on the pump housing. By the time you see "blue smoke," you have probably smoked the housing.

Peter, I would do the replacement. $100 sounds like a good deal. The rebuild kit runs about $60. The woodruff key in the shaft can be a real bear to remove. Reinstallation of the lower unit can be awkward without a little help. Some folks have problems when they inadvertently move the shift mechanism and can't get things to mate right. I've had no problems doing mine but that's no guarantee for you. What's your skill level? Should be no problem for an advanced beginner mechanic. Use non-copper anti-seize on the bolts so there's no electrolysis.

Ideally the pump should be replaced every three years or 300 hours of typical use, perhaps more often for commercial/hard use/sucking sand constantly. My impellers have all been fine, it's the housings that wore out. Examine the inside of the plastic cover and the thin channels/grooves near the impeller and you may find the wear I'm describing.

If you haven't changed yours on schedule and your flow rate drops noticeably, do it!

Item #2
There is a mud dauber here that loves to get up into the outlet for the indicator stream and build his/her nest. This happens every time I leave the outlet open, so I stick a Bic pen cartridge in the hole when not in use. Since I store the boat on a trailer this may only be a land storage problem. Use a stiff wire to rout out the hose, but don't poke a hole in it. Check for flow at the flush connection whenever there is no indicator stream before jumping to conclusions.

I never start the motor without water covering the ENTIRE lower unit all the way up to and covering the upper intakes. This immerses the pump and keeps it cool even if the daggone thing is already worn out. It doesn't take long for a dry pump to build up heat. Yes, my dealer runs the motor on muffs briefly but he always seems to get great pressure because it pees every time ( I always watch). There is water everywhere. I can't seem to get the same pressure (I'm on a well) and I don't have the deluxe muffs he has.

This diatribe is based on my own experience. YMMV

 

[Pboettger]

My skill level is on par with my knowledge, enough to be dangerous.
Fortunately, I have a neighbor who is a professional OB mechanic at a Yamaha dealer and he does some moonlighting on the side. That's where the $100 quote is from. Thanks for all the info. Can't wait to get this thing in the water.

 

[BuddahB]

In addition to putting a Y fitting and feeding water in both high and low, taking out the plastic inlet screens before putting muffs on. Those screens are pretty restrictive also. If that still doesn't do it, take both side covers off the lower leg and then the center cover in back which is very thin and take out poppit valve and clean it. It's a very large plastic nut and not much room to work in there but be careful not to strip it. It's a simple spring loaded valve with small orifice hole so it can be serviced rather than replaced. I replaced mine the first time to the tune of 45 bucks and realized the old one could have been re-used. I forget the size but it's every bit the size of an 1 1/2 inch.