thx for the tip but I have done a lot of research and thinking .due to the compact yet openness of the 17 complimented with the large fuel tank I think it will suite my needs /wants perfectly for what im using it for.its similar in size the privateer retriever with the same lay out and yes the privateer is probably more readily avalibale however I have yet to see one that selfbails as it should with a 90 much less the 115 yamaha I am hopeing to outfit it with .I had my eye on one but it had a older 93 Johnson I didn't think I could sell the Johnson and buy a Yamaha without just being totally upside down in the thing for what he was asking .im in the 4000 to 7500 dollar range obviously it would need to be closer to exactly what im looking for in able to come up to the 7500