Yamaha 225 Salt Water Series II problem

[Pain Management]

Help!

I have the Yamaha (2002 ) 225 Salt Water Series II motor on my 2520. Back in September when I bought the boat I experienced some bogging down while going through some heavy spit/boat wake. As soon as I came out of the wake everything was fine and there were no other issues. I asked my local Parker Dealer about it and he said that there are internal filters in the motor that could possibly cause the problem. He said that by not taking care of the problem it could cause more serious issues later. I took this under advisement but waited to see if it occurred again before having to deal with the 4 or 5 hours labor at 105.00 an hour, plus parts. At that time the motor had only 99 hours on it, so I thought that his assessment without seeing the motor was more likely not the problem and just an isolated incident. This has always been in the back of my mind, however I haven't had the problem in the last 45 hours or so on the motor with no further problems until yesterday.

I attempted to leave the Barnegat Inlet (first time out) in what I would classify as somewhat heavy chop. I got out o.k by keeping some good speed up. As I slowed up and started to s- - t my pants having realized that I was over My (boating experience) head, I turned around and started to head back in. I could not get up on plane and could not get up any real speed. I think the R.P.M'S were up by the sound of the motor although I had tunnel vision and did not look. The boat did move and after a few minutes of elevated pulse / blood pressure I made it back in. The problem stopped and no further issues for the 16 mile ride to the marina.

I would appreciate any advice.
George

 

[TomS]

George,

Having the engine bog down when hitting a wake or in heavy chop is a classic sign that your VST filter has become partially clogged. Since I'm guessing it hasn't been done before, you are probably long overdue. The good news is that its relatively easy to do yourself if you have some level of mechanical skills.

If you are all thumbs, I'd recommend bringing it to a good Yamaha mechanic, as this is a critical component of your engine's fuel system and there are some high $$ parts that you will be playing around with.

Check these threads for more info:

http://bbcboards.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=66928

http://classicparker.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=627

Feel free to ask any questions once you dig through this info.

The first link will give you a pictorial view of what is involved and you can see how comfortable you feel tackling it yourself - note that this procedure is exactly the same for your engine as the HPDI in the thread.. you only need to worry about the content of the first post in the thread, the second post by the same author is for an HPDI specific filter.

The second link is to a thread where I posted my version of the how-to without pictures, but with some additional tips. If you combine the two you should be able to handle it yourself.

-- Tom

 

[John_Madison CT]

Wasn't there a post about this exact same problem a week or two ago?

Anyway, I had the same exact thing happen to my Ox66. It was a clogged VST filter. I still don't fully understand why hitting a wake or wave makes a difference, but it does.

It's not hard to do. One hint, have a high quality #2 philips head screw driver. I nearly stripped a few of the small philips head screws on the top of the vst tank.

 

[Parker23]

That is so true about the Screwdriver same here. 8)

 

[Pain Management]

TomS & John,

Thanks for solving the problem for me. I did read the other post on the vst problem but did not know what was meant by vst. It all makes sense now.
I did go to the Parker dealership today and was shown the $103.00 filter. The price is a joke but I guess there is no way around it. I was thinking about installing myself, but this time around I am letting the dealer do it being I want to have them take a look at a crack running along the transim. From reading other posts on the site this too is a common problem. The dealer advided me to change out a second filter on the fuel line. He said the one that comes wirh the factory can not handle a 10 micron filter. This set-up that he wants to sell me is a little under $200.00 and $30.00 to replace the filter when needed, but he told me it will give the $103.00 vst filter longer use. What do you think?

George

 

[Outta Here]

Most Parkers have an in-line filterbase in the bilge. Simply replace current cartridge w/the big blue Yamaha 10 micron filter. It screws on. The filter sells for about $14.50, if you order thru Shipyard Island marina.

Some people like the Racor screw on filter (also fits existing base, I think), also available in 10 micron and has a see thru bottom to drain water. They sell for $25.00 or so.

 

[Pain Management]

Fish factory,
I had changed that filter (water seperator) to 10 micron when I got the boat back in September. The dealer told me there is a third filter in the fuel line that can not handle a 10 micron. Ever hear of this third filter?

George

 

[TomS]

George,

I'm not sure what $200 filter they could be talking about?

Sounds like you have already installed an externally mounted, screw on cannister type fuel/water separating filter (10 micron, either Racor or big blue Yamaha type)?

Check this post to see what we are talking about:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thre ... 06&start=1

Under the engine cowling is another filter that you can see right on the port side of the engine. This filter used to be 'good enough' but now you really must have the external 10 micron filter / water separator.

Unless it is physically damaged, there is no reason that $100 filter on the VST pump can't be cleaned. I've cleaned the same filter 5 or 6 times now in the last 3 years. You can just spray it with carb cleaner and keep working the fine grit out of the filter element, it should clean up fairly easily.

-- Tom

 

[gw204]

Unless it is physically damaged, there is no reason that $100 filter on the VST pump can't be cleaned.

Just make sure you turn that filter the correct way or you will break the locking tab off and have to replace the whole thing. Don't ask me how I know that....times two.

 

[John_Madison CT]

The on-engine filter (located on the port side) has a Yamaha upgrade available. The new one is a 10 micron unit. I elected to leave mine alone as I already have a 10 micron Racor.

FWIW, I know the cost sucks, but I'll always replace my VST filter, not clean it. If anything gets by it you will be in for a world of hurt with clogged injectors.

 

[Pain Management]

John,

Thats correct about being a Yamaha upgrade. Why did Yamaha feel the need to make this upgrade, I don't know. Maybe there have more then a few complaints relating to the clogged VST filter at $103.00. The dealer wasn't exactly pushing hard on it he was just was pointing it out and said a few of his customers had installed it for the extra protection. He did say that the VST filter is being clogged because the 10 micron water separator is not “catching everything”. It does sound like it would enhance the protection but I'm just wondering if is worth the two bills. I'm a little paranoid at this point with the experience I had coming through the inlet and just don't want to run into the problem again. As for cleaning the filter like Tom does, I think it would depend on how often it needs to be replaced. I know one thing for sure, I will be checking the filter a few times a year throughout the season as general maintenance.
Thank you all for the information.
George

 

[Parker23]

Yamaha has that filter because some boats come rigged without a water seperator.

 

[TomS]

So if I understand things correctly, there is filter assembly from Yamaha that replaces the engine mounted filter with a 10 micron one? Interesting.

I wonder if they recommend this filter for people who also have the external 10 micron Yamaha big blue / Racor one as well? Ie are two filters better than one, or is that too much for the low pressure fuel pumps to suck the gas through?

-- Tom

 

[Pain Management]

As per my Parker dealership here in New Jersey, in addition to the big blue 10 micron filter he said the second 10 micron filter on the engine is a good idea for extra protection. We shall see ......

George

 

[John_Madison CT]

I fully expected a Yamaha dealer to say that you should also have the expensive on-engine 10 micron filter. IMO, it's a waste of money, but then again, I'm a tightwad.

 

[Pain Management]

John,

I hear what your saying but it does make sense if you think about it. I'm not saying I would believe everything they say but my first experience with them went well. The bill was not as bad as I thought considering what I had done. They even threw me three complete door clips sets at no charge for the cabin door.
In reference to my problem, Pat the service manager showed me the replaced VST filter. He said it was not that bad and said that the bogging down may not have been a clogged VST. He said to check it out in the spring and see if the problem was corrected. He said if it did not correct the next step would be to look at fuel pumps at only $40.00 a pop. I thought dealing with boat dealerships were like car dealership but not today at least.
George

 

[John_Madison CT]

For an '02 Ox66 new fuel pumps are regular maintenance, not really an option. That being said, I have a '02 Ox66 with original pumps too. I already bought the new ones and will probably replace mine this spring, before launching the boat.

At www.boats.net they're pretty cheap.

 

[TomS]

George,

If you haven't yet changed the low pressure fuel pumps on that engine, they are long overdue and should be changed. Don't wait to see if you have problems, they need to be swapped out every 2-3 years max.

Bad LP pumps can cause the engine to bog down and stutter at High RPMs because the engine can't get enough fuel. It will also inject more fuel into the engine than it should which can lead to other, more substantial problems over time. Another sign that your LP pumps have failed is if you see a little gas leaking out of the lower unit when the engine is trimmed down.

Its only my opinion, but there a few common problems that show up with the fuel injected Yamahas, and most of them can be avoided with a little preventative maintenance.

Here is my list of stuff that I do every 100 hours, typically once in the spring and once mid-year:

* Check sparkplugs
* Swap out fuel/water separator filter
* Clean O2 density sensor
* Check TPS (Throttle Position Sensor)
* Check oil rod adjustment
* Check fuel pressure off VST tank

Every two years I will do the following:

* Change low pressure fuel pumps
* Change T-stats
* Change water pump / impeller
* Check PCV (Pressure control valve)

Hope this helps.. again, I'd recommend that you get these things done if you haven't yet on a 2002 motor.

-- Tom

 

[Outta Here]

Sounds like your dealer is on a "fishing trip" that you are paying for. :?

I've been thru the same thing (only twice in 29 years). Why do dealers refuse to use any diagnostic skills at all? Pretty sure Yamaha (and others) have plenty of mechanic training classes to deal with this type of thing.

 

[Pain Management]

Sounds like I have a little work to do in the spring, but for now she is being put to bed for winter. That is after I make the 10 foot gate I have a little bigger. Somehow I knew things would not go easy........

Thanks everyone for the help this year! The information you guys gave me was great. As soon as the weather permits I will have plenty of questions on things such as installation of fresh water wash down, stereo, and most importantly fuel pumps and water pump.

Just picked up the Yamaha service manual so that should keep me zoned for awhile.

George