Battery Configuration , I need some guidance

[Ludicrous40]

I'm a new Parker owner (2003 2520XL, with single Yamaha F225 4 stroke) and am looking to address a battery problem. Long story short, I don't think the boat has the right batteries in it (it has two series 27 deep cycle batteries from AutoCraft, MCA = 750). My goal is to fix it right. I want to be able to be running live well and electronics all day, then safely start up and get home.

The problem: The battery switch is set to one battery, engine running and measuring a charging voltage on the battery posts between 13 and 14v depending on RPM. Electronics on, Livewell on, radios on,.....if I shut down, and immediately try to restart, I get a low voltage warning from my electronics, and engine wouldn't start without switching to both. This happens with either battery. Clearly this is bad as I'm spiking the electronics, but it seems that these batteries have been damaged or are incorrect for this purpose (2 years old) as they cannot handle the load even after running and charging with the engine for some time. When I start up at dock with nothing on, the engine starts fine on one battery. FYI the boat also has a solar charger on the roof that seems to trickle charge nicely when I'm not on the boat.

I've read on the Hull Truth that Yamaha does not recommend using deep cycle batteries as the 4 stroke starting load can damage the cells, and that the 4 stroke charges them too fast leading to a shortened battery life.....Is that correct? I've also heard that AGM batteries aren't "blessed" by yamaha.

From reading the old posts here, it sounds like it would be worth the investment in a cluster switch, but I've also read some different opinions on what the batteries should be (both dual purpose, or one cranking and one deep cycle). I've also been thinking that it may be beneficial to go to a larger series battery, but that's why I'm posting.....You guys seem to have been through so much of this already....

If I go to a Cluster Switch, I'm assuming that I will need to isolate the battery connections through the switch......there seem to be several connections on the batteries........for example, what would I do with the solar connection?......I"m at my marina today, and am planning to spend some time with my head in the bilge making sure that I understand what I have connected in there.....

Thanks in advance - Rob on the "Go Fish" in NewburyPort, MA

 

[DaleH]

IMHO you should have had Dual Purpose batteries, which incorporate the cranking amps of a starting battery with thicker plates for more and longer discharges ala 'deep cycle' batteries.

I'd probably go with that BEP Marine cluster Bobby (Warthog5) uses, but be sure to marinize it ... as it comes with only UNprotected automotive terminations as received. Try the search feature ...

 

[Brent]

are you using a Perko switch?
Is it set to 1, 2 or ALL ?

ex
selector position # 1 Drawing power from battery 1

sp # 2 Drawing power from battery 2

sp Both Drawing power from both batteries

sp Off No power is supplied

 

[Ludicrous40]

The Brand is "Guest", with the settings you referenced.

I typically run on one or two, but yesterday ran out on both, then switched to one while fishing......never shut the motor off, and when I did, didn't have enough juice to restart without going to both......pretty sure they're both junk

 

[warthog5]

I've always used "START" battery of the correct size for what the motor calls for. Usually a Gp24.

Then a Gp27 Deep Cycle for all the House stuff.

And I've installed the BEP cluster switch on everything I own.

The batteries you have need to be charged and Load tested first, but Deep Cycles are not designed to put out that mad rush of amps that a starter motor requires, although they will.

 

[Brent]

sorry off of the subject

Warthog

What size circuit breaker are you installing?

 

[warthog5]

There is no circuit breaker to the Motor....There is a 50amp within a few inches of the Switch that goes on the feed the House circuits.

 

[Brent]

Thanks

 

[Ludicrous40]

Where did you purchase you're Cluster Switch? I looked at Jamestown Distributors, and they didn't carry that version (online anyway).

So the update is that I pulled my batteries, had them tested, and they passed with flying colors. The battery dealer that I spoke with (Rolls in Salem, MA) insisted that those batteries (deep cycle Gp27) are fine for starting my motor ( I'm still not convince of that). So I re-installed, cleaning and inspecting the connections on the motor, battery switch, and batteries. Took it out again, and still had some problems. With everything on, I shut the motor off and immediately restarted. It started, but the "turn-over" sounded sluggish, and I got a low voltage warning on my GPS. Did several experiments shutting off various pieces of gear (live well, radios, etc..) and it did seem better. I never had to go to the second battery, but I know there is still an issue.

Tomorrow I'm going to check the resistance through all the battery related cables, and the breakers (I have 2-40Amp breakers for the house stuff). The 40 Amp breakers are right next to the battery switch in the bilge. Two wires come off the switch with one going to each breaker, and then individual wires run from the breakers to isolated terminal bars up front. There's also a large wire for the windless that runs from the top of one the breakers to a dedicated 50 Amp breaker upfront. I'll take some pictures, and will document the wire gauges.

I'm planning to go with the Cluster switch, as I'm definitely spiking my GPS in the current configuration. Undecided on the battery situation. If I don't find connection problems, I'll likely get a cranking battery, and use the extra deep cycle as a spare.

 

[dcunniff]

I don't know what CCA or MCA you need for your engine. One battery, even group 27 sometimes pulls up just short.

I always start on two batteries unless I forget. I turn to one battery when left at the dock or when anchored. I start and run with both batteries on.

Sometimes a hot engine is harder to start than a cold one. Could be part of it.

My '96 2530 came with group 24 batteries, deep cycle. Different brands I went with after had different MCA ratings. Couple years ago went to group 27 deep cycle.

My engine calls for 650 CCA minimum. Even my group 27 deep cycle only has 600CCA (Interstate)!

Note, if you go with away from deep cycle on one battery you will give up some amount of reserve minutes, you may be OK with it.

Dana

 

[Ludicrous40]

my batteries are both deep cycle with CCA of 600, MCA 0f 750, and reserve of 160.

All I can tell you is that it is spiking my electronics when I restart. Unless I find a serious connection problem, I'm going with the Cluster switch with VSR, and will likely get a cranking battery.

 

[Megabyte]

I'm using a pair of these.
Lots of power.

 

[warthog5]

My engine calls for 650 CCA minimum. Even my group 27 deep cycle only has 600CCA (Interstate)!

The words are right in front of you......It's a Deep Cycle. The same size in a "Starting" battery will be 800 CCA +.

 

[warthog5]

my batteries are both deep cycle with CCA of 600, MCA 0f 750, and reserve of 160.

All I can tell you is that it is spiking my electronics when I restart. Unless I find a serious connection problem, I'm going with the Cluster switch with VSR, and will likely get a cranking battery.

See....Now your getting Smart and getting to the root of the problem.


I have to hunt for the cluster switches. Price is a little higher here, but only one I could find with 10min of searching.

http://www.defender.com/productsearchre ... _retry=yes

 

[Ludicrous40]

Just received my new Cluster Switch. It has a couple new features:

It is now using a DVSR (digital voltage sensing relay).....either that, or they changed the name.

It comes with a Remote LED connection so that you can wire to an LED in the helm to show you the DVSR status (orange wire).

It comes with the ability to wire the low voltage (12v) for the DVSR to either your ignition switch, or to a simple On/Off switch. The principle being that you can turn off the relay when the boat is not in use. Otherwise the relay is always on. This feature is enabled by cutting the Red wire loop shown, and wiring to either switch. My concern here is that this opens up the possibility for the DVSR to fail or (not work) if there is a connection problem with the ignition switch, remote switch, or the wiring from the red wire to the switch........I'm tempted to just leave it on all the time, which means leaving the loop intact. Otherwise the instructions are to cut the appropriate end close to the plastic, and then wire the new tag to one side of a switch that is attached to a fused 12v connection. I wish they didn't give me the option, as now I have to make a decision on this......

 

[Ludicrous40]

Do you see any problems if I mount like this:


It will work better for my house connection

 

[warthog5]

. The principle being that you can turn off the relay when the boat is not in use.

I like that,as it does draw a few milly amps if you do not.

I have read about the change and that the older ones could be changed.

As to the mounting position...It's not a problem, but the switches turned in a horazintal position whenON plus the Green showing helps to insure that the switches are in the correct position.

Redo the 10ga wires to rid of the automotive connectors.



Before:

After:

 

[Ludicrous40]

Well the project is started.......and I'm finding that the prior owner had an affection for automotive grade crimps.....I've got a lot of work to do..

 

[Megabyte]

Well the project is started.......and I'm finding that the prior owner had an affection for automotive grade crimps.....I've got a lot of work to do..

It's not uncommon.
Start with the most critical ones first, then move on to other areas as you have time.
In the dry and protected areas of my boat, I don't worry as much. I only change them out when a project takes me there.

 

[DaleH]

In the dry and protected areas of my boat, I don't worry as much.

On some of those, where I could confirm (resistance check on the wire) that it was integral and non-corroded, I have sealed the ends of the non-heatshrink-covered connections with liquid e-tape ... until I eventually replaced them.