Racor 3213 vs OEM Yamaha fuel water separator

[DaleH]

Wow ... some great discussion here. Here are some of my thoughts. If I use capital letters, it is to ennunciate a point and not to flame or contest the opinion of someone who's experience differs from mine.

What is the differance between 60 GPH vs 90 GPH ?? Does this mean that the Racor will filter less amount of fuel ??

Nope … up to 60 GPH both will filter the same amount of fuel. The 90GPH most likely has a larger volume to handle the extra fuel amount. Since your OB burns 30GPH or less, you’re paying for extra overhead ‘you ain’t using’.

If I ever have trouble with my Yamaha, I'd rather go to them with a handfull of "Yamaha receipts" as opposed to some Racor receipts. I believe Yamaha was first in developing the 10 micron filter.

Bull on both counts. First, if Yamaha were to disallow a claim based on BRAND of 10-micron filter, then they would need to provide them with the motor, as per US FTC rulings.

Second … do ya’ think Yummiha makes their OEM-branded filter? Not. The 2 players are Sierra and Racor. I have been reliably told that Racor does and they are the ones who pioneered fuel/water separator technology, as they are owned by the much large Parker-Hannifin corporation, leaders in industrial filtration products.

The biggest difference that I see is that the Racors are drain-able without removing them, while the Yamaha's have to be removed to be drained.

Not a big deal to me, but it might be for some folks.[/img]

If one runs offshore in what could be snotty if not serious seas, I strongly CAUTION one to use a filter that has a drainable bowl and is see-thru, so you can see what's going on. You can check to see if the hull pounding and jostling of the tank is causing crud to be picked up by the fuel pickup and you can go to headway speed, keep the bow into the weather, and then drain off the crap.

I’m admittedly so biased as to state … anyone running E10 ethanol fuel WITHOUT a f/w separator AND see-thru drainable bowl (in an OB-powered boat) is foolhardy. OK, my rant over ! FWIW, I towed in 6 or more boats last season, including small skiffs, all for E10 fuel-related issues. Heck, I just added a f/w separator to my 12' skiff with 10hp OB.

Try this, the next time any of you go to change out your f/w filter ‘while you are tied comfortably to your dock’ … tell me just how long it took you to do it? I have loaned out my 2 strap wrenches I keep on board to more boaters at my boatclub than any other tool. Do you even have 2 strap wrenches on board … ?? Now try it offshore in seas ... :shock: !

I think the Racor wins hands down. Looking at the clear bowl at the bottom of the Racor to check for water is a HUGE advantage.

Couldn't have said it any better myself!

If something in the bilge arcs and catches fire, the OEM filter is designed maintain its integrity, whereas the plastic bowl of the Racor will readily melt and likely cause your vessel to explode. They are undoubtedly cool to look at, and convenient to drain, but at what cost/risk?

Maybe, but there is no way to eliminate ALL risks in boating.

But looking at Boat/US and USCG reports, the risk of a fuel-related stranding or brakedown versus a fire in the bilge of an OB-powered boat must be something on the order like 1,000,000 or 10,000,000 to 1.

With an anti-siphon valve properly positioned in my fuel line, should I get a fire at or near the OB, I could cut the fuel line from whence it leaves the tank. Yeah, I may get a small fire in the rear bilge, but I will have isolated the fuel source from the problem. I believe Parker now does not install anti-siphon valves on their fuel lines.

 

[grouperjim]

If something in the bilge arcs and catches fire, the OEM filter is designed maintain its integrity, whereas the plastic bowl of the Racor will readily melt and likely cause your vessel to explode. They are undoubtedly cool to look at, and convenient to drain, but at what cost/risk?

Maybe, but there is no way to eliminate ALL risks in boating.

But looking at Boat/US and USCG reports, the risk of a fuel-related stranding or brakedown versus a fire in the bilge of an OB-powered boat must be something on the order like 1,000,000 or 10,000,000 to 1.

With an anti-siphon valve properly positioned in my fuel line, should I get a fire at or near the OB, I could cut the fuel line from whence it leaves the tank. Yeah, I may get a small fire in the rear bilge, but I will have isolated the fuel source from the problem.

Dale:

This is some great discussion, especially since it involves a safety related issue. While I do respect your point of view, I feel compelled to disagree with it.

My thoughts and life experiences differ from yours on this issue. My opinions are not based on computer statistics, but rather real life experiences as a rescue swimmer. I have rescued more than a few live ones (and unfortunately a few not so lucky) from many different types of marine craft. To help illustrate my point, some pics are attached of one particular day in April 1988. I believe that it is not possible to ELIMINATE all risks, however it is possible to MINIMIZE them.

Speaking of the 2320; Parker has designed (probably a safety requirement) the bilge with components such as fuel hoses, fuel filters, wiring, etc. that will withstand heat for a specified length of time. The reason for this is that with fuel components, batteries, Yamaha command link relays, as well as circuit breakers and wiring/connections etc. are all located within inches of each other. This area is the highest risk for an ignition source. IMO and Racor's, having non fire rated component such as a plastic bowl filled with gasoline in the bilge is an unnecessary risk. To me, the metal version of the bowl with the metal drain would be a safer more acceptabe risk. I don't see how you can recommend otherwise on this issue.

The whole intent of having fire rated hoses/filters/wiring etc. is to give the occupants of the vessel time to recognize a problem, retrieve fire fighting equipment, and ultimately put out the fire/save the vessel.

Although you may be able to shut down the fuel flow on Miss Teak, there is enough gas remaining in the fuel filter to take out a couple of Parkers.

For those who feel that the convenience of the plastic bowl versus the Racor drainable metal version is more important than having a safe bilge (relatively speaking), then based on my experience, if you experience a fire in the bilge, forget about fighting the fire, and abandon ship. Get as far away as quickly as possible.

You quote some stats, however in the Tampa Bay area, we see news coverage of boat fires/explosions on average 2 to 3 times a year. Probably insurance jobs, but what do I know.

jim


I have read many posts from CPers complaining of the leaky hatch above the batteries....Hmmm

Update: Found out from a Bonefish crewman that the actual cause of the fire was a long time leaking garbage disposal connection. The leak went unrepaired and saltwater had pooled in a space above the batteries. When the sub was ordered to dive during ASW operations, the water surged forward and found its way the the bats causing them to arc and ignite insulation behind a bulkhead which the crew could not gain access to effectively fight the fire.

 

[Bryan 2530]

How about something like this mounted in the hatch where the fuel filters are? Automatic fire surpression.

Great discussion guys.

 

[grouperjim]

An ejection seat in addition to the fire supression system would be the ticket. :wink:

 

[Bryan 2530]

Do they make those for Parkers? I was thinking about cutting in a sunroof, now I have a reason to. 8)

 

[greatcir]

The Racor site says:

"Marine Gasoline Spin-On Filter
Upgrade Your Standard Gasoline Filter

Now, owners of inboard or outboard engines can get smoother operation and longer life -- all in one easy spin onto their existing engine filter heads. There's a choice of rugged, reusable see-thru bowl with self-venting drain or a metal bowl with drain plug for inboard applications. Metal bowls are UL-listed and USCG accepted. See-thru bowls are recommended for outboard applications only."

Would be interesting to burn the Racor clear bottom plastic to see how much heat it would take to make it burn - or if it would burn - before the fiberglass took off burning.

Also to see the NMMA and USCG regs on this issue.

I like the idea of the automatic fire bottle in one of the posts above. These can kill a fire quickly and efficiently if they are mounted correctly and inspected on schedule.

Makes me also wonder what it would take to have an air inlet and outlet ( with explosion proof exhaust fan in line) for this small compartment to be in compliance. Only runs before start up anyway?

Maybe an explosive gas sensor would be worth installing if they really do their job?

On my 2120 there are no batteries in the fuel filter compartment, just a bilge pump with a lift switch and both should not be a spark problem so I'm very comfortable with the Racor & clear bottom. But may add an automatic extinguisher or ventilation or gas sensor once I learn more.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Pete

[/b]

 

[grouperjim]

Pete:

You and I think alike. We should apply for a job on the show "Myth Busters."

I was actually thinking about throwing a plastic Racor bowl on the grill which is about the same size as my bilge. However, when I told the Admiral, she happened to know how much a Racor costs. Needless to say we are having burgers instead.

jim

 

[DaleH]

... shows how all Parker models are different.

In my '92 vintage 2520, the aft bilge is separated into 2 sides, though no formal barrier between them but a frp tackle storage locker.

All electrical and power comes up via the starboard side (left looking AFT) and all fuel, hydraulics, and oil takes up the port side. I like that separation !

 

[FishPimp]

the myth busters are my next door neighbors well two doors down.
good dudes.
I will ask Adam to think about dispelling the fuel filter myth.

 

[grouperjim]

Can't wait to see that episode!

jim

 

[esfishdoc]

Are you saying that if you have a nice metal filter that won't burn, the fuel line and bulb will withstand the firel and prevent further problems?

 

[grouperjim]

1. Are you saying that if you have a nice metal filter that won't burn

2. the fuel line and bulb will withstand the firel and prevent further problems?

1. I don't know of any substance that won't eventually burn. Plastic would not be too high on the list. Metal would be.

Ask yourself this question. If the Myth Busters had charcoal grill "A" with a plastic bowl/filter filled with gas, and grill "B" with your metal filter filled with gas, and then fired up both grills at the same time to the same temp, which grill do you think would be around longer.

2. I would not expect a fuel line/bulb to prevent further problems, but of course a fire extinguisher would be a good choice. After the fire is out, I would definitely replace the fuel line/bulb and filter because any fire retardant properties would more than likely have been compromised.

I am not sure if this answers your question. The point, is that you do not want the fuel filter to be the weakest link in a fire situation for obvious reasons.

Dale makes an important point also: The plastic Racor is fine for many Parker boats because they are all configured differently. Not all models have electronics, bats, fuel, and seawater all within inches of each other in a wet bilge compartment.

jim

 

[Megabyte]

I'd like to see the MythBusters take this one on!

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythb ... sters.html

 

[greatcir]

Well I went to the horse's mouth and the technical guy at Racor said they only specify not using the plastic bottom filter in commercail applications.

For all outboard recreational/private boats the clear bottom filter is okay per Racor. His only reservation is that if one had a boat fire, the insurance company could balk at paying off if it thought the plastic bottom was an issue in the fire.

He also thought the plastic would melt (maybe not burn) before the fuel hoses or the aluminum fuel tank or the fibergalss was an issue.

Like us, he siad the only reliable way to know you have water or ethanol crud in a closed metal filter is to remove it and pour out the contents. If a clear bottom Racor is full of water, it can look the same as gasoline and can pass the water on to the engine so I check mine frequently.

Again, for my 2007 2120 the only items in my fuel filter compartement are a bilge pump and a bilge swithch and some wire runs with no splices.

Having caught ethanol already in my Yammie in my first few hours of operation, I will keep my water/crud visible Racor filter. I changed to the Racor because of the ethanol problems described in this forum and lucky I did even though only a few hours on the boat.

Now for the Myth Busters - how about a number of charcoal grills (or temperature controlled heaters) with timers and placing on them (some10 micron examples):

1. A plain plasic Racor bottom (see what temp it melts or burns)
2. A Racor clear bottom filter full of fuel (different results from #1?)
2. A Yammie filter full of fuel
3. A piece of our fuel hose full of fuel
4. A piece of our typical fiberglass and a piece of the hatch over the compartment
5. A Racor filter with a metal bottom full of fuel
6. A typical Halon automatic fire extinguisher (see if it would let loose before any of the above)

If we knew the temperatures where the above blew up or failed, then it would be easy to see if automatic fire extinguisher bottles dischage before these temperatures are reached? Maye the hatch cover would melt first? Maybe??

Ka boom,,,,,,,,,,,Pete

 

[captbone]

Great discussion guys.

I am a racor man, and I current have a racor with the clear plastic bottom bowl mounted in my Bertram. I like the ability to see and drain the fuel out. I feel that their filters are top of the line.


As far as the plastic bowl in the bilge, I do agree that a metal bowl will be safer but I feel that the benefit of the clear plastic bowl outweighs the danger by a million to one. Here are my 2 cents.

1.) I feel, that there is a more likely chance to have a filter full of water that I may need to drain offshore in a hurry. I feel that going thru a rough inlet and being in a bad spot with a single engine is alot more dangerous than the plastic bowl. I want the ability to drain and check.

2.) Changing a fuel filter (metal and plastic) in a bilge while at sea is dangerous. Period. I would like to drain the water without having to touch the filter.

3.) You can easily offset the danger by ordering a serria stanless steel head and mount the racor on the inside of the transom. Any filter would be safer there anyway.

4.) Any heat that would damage the bowl is going to damage the fuel supply line, feed hose and bulb also. Like it was said before, if you have that much heat in your bilge, you have other troubles to deal with before the bowl.

5.) Ball valves at the tank and filter can make it safer.

6.) Boating can be dangerous, if you have to worry about that bowl than you should not be boating.

Just my opinion. I respect everyone elses ideas these are just mine.

 

[grouperjim]

Update on the sub pics on page one.

 

[Peregrine]

Another option, to changing a clogged filter while under way, is to plumb two filter/seps into the system so that one can switch while under way.

Having been through a great deal of time and money chasing E10/MTBE issues I now have a system plumbed in just such a manner, using 2 micron RACOR's with clear bowls.

I'll check the PN's this weekend and post, with a pic.

Jeff