Through Hull and Live Well Pump Install

[Tunagi]

Hey Everyone,
I recently purchased a 2001 21 SE that doesn't have a livewell or pump. Sooooo on top of all of the other little projects I have, this one is a must for me.

Already picked up a 40 gallon livewell that fits nicely under the custom leaning post the previous owner had.

Now it's time to drill a hole and work on plumbing.

I'd love any and all recommendations on through hull size and ideal location. I'm thinking port side close to the plug since the transducer is going to be installed starboard.

Is a high speed pick up typically necessary for this hull as well?

Fire away, I'm all ears.

Thanks in advance!

 

[pelagic2530]

Hey Everyone,
I recently purchased a 2001 21 SE that doesn't have a livewell or pump. Sooooo on top of all of the other little projects I have, this one is a must for me.

Already picked up a 40 gallon livewell that fits nicely under the custom leaning post the previous owner had.

Now it's time to drill a hole and work on plumbing.

I'd love any and all recommendations on through hull size and ideal location. I'm thinking port side close to the plug since the transducer is going to be installed starboard.

Is a high speed pick up typically necessary for this hull as well?

Fire away, I'm all ears.

Thanks in advance!

Search function is your friend. Install of the thru-hull fitting has been covered quite a bit. Mine is shown in my 1700 thread: 1997 1700 Overhaul Project

As far as thru-hull size goes, check to see what size pump is recommended for your livewell. Find a good dual port livewell pump with that capacity, (Rule or SPX Johnson, stay away from Shurflo), dual port in case you want to add a washdown pump later on. Check the size of the threaded intake; select a thru-hull based on that size. High speed fittings are generally what is used, however be aware that they will scoop up water at speed if the valve is open whether the pump is running or not.

You’re on the right track with the port side install to leave stbd clear for a transducer.

 

[Tunagi]

Thanks Pelagic.

I've been searching through old threads as well, which has been helpful....and a bit overwhelming! Lots of great stuff on this site.

Looking for opinions on the placement of the through-hull.

Looking in the bildge I see the thickness of the transom is much less directly around the drain plug.

Is it better/recommended to use this area or is it better to go through the beefier part of the transom a few inches further away from the drain.

Any interior and exterior pictures would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[warthog5]

Do NOT go thru the transom.....You will loose water intake at speed. Go thru the bottom of the Hull....Install a scoop, Ball valve 3/4in is the standard for our size boats.
Port side as mentioned.....aprox. 6 to 12in in front of transom and 6 to 18in port side of keel.
Install a Rule Dual Port....You can leave the plug in it.....But if the future calls for a washdown Your good.

40gal Livewell is a BIG Livewell and will weigh 330lbs when Full. A 800GPH will work fine....Yes I know there is a 1100GPH ..... You can put tooooo much flow in there and stress the baits.

 

[Tunagi]

HMMMMMM, glad I asked. Thanks for the info!

All of my previous boats (not Parkers) have been through the transom and had a high speed pick up and worked just fine.

I can totally see the benefit of floor mounted. Anything to not compromise the transom in my opinion seems like the right path to follow.

Seems this project warrants further input from my local professionals.

Much appreciated!

 

[Tunagi]

Forgot to ask....Do you have a 21SE as well, Warthog?

 

[pelagic2530]

HMMMMMM, glad I asked. Thanks for the info!

All of my previous boats (not Parkers) have been through the transom and had a high speed pick up and worked just fine.

I can totally see the benefit of floor mounted. Anything to not compromise the transom in my opinion seems like the right path to follow.

Seems this project warrants further input from my local professionals.

Much appreciated!

Interesting. Can’t say I’ve seen an intake plumbed through the transom. Drains plumbed through the transom with a seacock shutoff, sure. Regardless, the way Warthog described is the correct way to do it for these hulls. You will need a backing plate (as shown in my install) in order to properly secure the fitting, since the hull isn’t thick enough for the necessary hardware.

Probably no need for professional assistance, it’s not a terribly hard project. And it’s been documented on here quite a bit. Order your seacock and thru-hull online, I think I went through Jamestown Distributors. Retail stores with gouge you to death. Can’t go wrong with Groco products.

 

[warthog5]

Forgot to ask....Do you have a 21SE as well, Warthog?

No I do not. This was the documentation of my 2530 that now resides in Alaska.

https://www.classicparker.com/threads/my-95-2530.12419/
But I work on a LOT of boats all the Time....I have narrowed my field to doing electrical work.....No more transoms or Fuel Tanks......The electrical work involves Trolling Motors, Electronics, Pumps of ALL types and anything associated with electrical.

Your thru the transom is usually associated with small boats...I suspect thats what you have had in the past? They are put there because small boats incounter weeds more often and have a limited area in the bilge. Yes if there is a bent pipe looking piece that goes bellow the bottom of the boat they do pick up....It's when the screen is screwed onto the pickup without the tube. Thru the bottom will allow for a washdown install in the future much easier.

 

[gregd123]

Don't forget inline strainer. Weeds will trash a pump. I empty mine every 2 to 3 trips.

Make sure your thru hull pickup is long enough to go through the hull and the backing plate and seat properly in the seacock. Recommend the Groco Bronze Thru-Hull Scoop Strainer (strainer faces forward, that way when you are underway it forces water in to prime your pump). Don't go cheap on these parts (you don't want this to fail, ever). All through hull should be bronze. Don't buy a brass ball valve at Home Depot. Don't buy any brass for that matter. Saltwater destroys brass.

Double band clamp all tube connections with stainless band clamps (they aren't cheap). Don't get the cheap stainless clamps, make sure the worm drive is stainless also. Use good quality tubing. I used sanitary sewer tubing. It is stiff and hard to work with but shouldn't fail for a long time.

This is the pump I put in - Jabsco 50840 Series Marine High Flow, Low Pressure Cyclone Centrifugal Pump. May be too large for you, I have a 90 gallon bait tank, but Jabsco makes a good pump IMO.

Seal all penetrations with resin. I coat wood core with resin and then seal with 5200.

Discharge can go through the transom. If you go through the transom, put a seacock here also. Not sure how thick your transom is. Mine was thick (2520) and I needed the longer stem seacock from Groco.

The cost of the plumbing fittings adds up but at the end of the day, as I said before, you don't ever want a failure in the bilge.

 

[dstanl01]

I’ve been following this thread and have a similar project coming up. The livewell is 40 gallons as well. I’ve been trying to figure out how to fit a sea chest in my bilge but the smallest I could find is too tight. One comment was to stay away from shurflo. I have a new shurflo pump on hand was thinking of using it. I’m not set on using it and would go with another. Also there was a comment on too much water flow and damaging bait. I’m usually using mackerel that seem to like a lot of water. Any drawback to putting in a higher volume pump with a valve to lower flow when necessary? Thanks in advance.

 

[warthog5]

One comment was to stay away from shurflo. I have a new shurflo pump on hand was thinking of using it.

It's what all Boat manufactures install....If you get 2yrs out of it.....You've been on borrowed Time. Their Junk!

 

[dstanl01]

It's what all Boat manufactures install....If you get 2yrs out of it.....You've been on borrowed Time. Their Junk!

It's what all Boat manufactures install....If you get 2yrs out of it.....You've been on borrowed Time. Their Junk!

Thanks, understood.

 

[Tunagi]

Really good stuff. Thanks everyone for all of the input!

I think I'll go with Warthog's suggestion of the livewell/raw wash pump. One question though....I'm assuming I'll only need one switch to turn the pump on? Is that correct? Or is there separate wiring for the raw wash vs. livewell pump to turn them on?

I'm outsourcing the wiring aspect of this project since it's not my strong suit and based on the boats age I think a lot of stuff should be replaced. Having the peace of mind it was done correctly while offshore is worth the $$ in my opinion.

Installing the pump itself seems like something I'll be comfortable handling.

Thanks again Everyone!

 

[pelagic2530]

Really good stuff. Thanks everyone for all of the input!

I think I'll go with Warthog's suggestion of the livewell/raw wash pump. One question though....I'm assuming I'll only need one switch to turn the pump on? Is that correct? Or is there separate wiring for the raw wash vs. livewell pump to turn them on?

I'm outsourcing the wiring aspect of this project since it's not my strong suit and based on the boats age I think a lot of stuff should be replaced. Having the peace of mind it was done correctly while offshore is worth the $$ in my opinion.

Installing the pump itself seems like something I'll be comfortable handling.

Thanks again Everyone!

The dual port pump will not provide pressure for a washdown system. The housing of the pump simply includes an additional port on the intake side of the pump, so that you can plumb in an intake hose for a separate washdown pump without having to pull water through the livewell pump. With the livewell pump mounted directly to the seacock, this port essentially serves as a “T”, without having to install additional plumbing between the seacock and the livewell pump.

If you want a washdown system, you’ll need an additional washdown pump and a separate switch and wiring circuit. If it’s something you think you’ll want in the future, and you have the spare switch, I’d suggest having your installer run both circuits at once as they’ll follow the same path. Have them leave extra slack in the washdown wires and terminate the ends with sealed end connectors, and you can coil them up somewhere until you decide to install the washdown system.

 

[Tunagi]

Just making sure I'm on the right track here.

Thru Hull Strainer (also acts as high speed pick up?)
Add backing plate inside bildge
Then thread Seacock to receiving threads on thru hull
Then attach pump to barbed end of seacock

I did see zero degree and 90 degree seacocks. Are there pluses / minuses to either? Seems using zero degree and running everything in a straight line would be easier, no?

 

[gregd123]

I recommend adding a strainer between the Thru Hull Strainer you are showing (same one I installed) and your pump. I pull weeds out of it every 2 to 3 trips. Pretty sure the weeds would have damaged the pump.

 

[pelagic2530]

Just making sure I'm on the right track here.

Thru Hull Strainer (also acts as high speed pick up?)
Add backing plate inside bildge
Then thread Seacock to receiving threads on thru hull
Then attach pump to barbed end of seacock

I did see zero degree and 90 degree seacocks. Are there pluses / minuses to either? Seems using zero degree and running everything in a straight line would be easier, no?

You’re on the right track. The picture you provided shows a seacock with a barbed hose fitting on top. If you’re planning on mounting the pump directly to the seacock, make sure the one you buy has female threads on the top that match the bottom of the pump you’re buying.

The high speed pickup is sort of a strainer, but not really that effective at it. If you’re adding a strainer as suggested above, I believe you’ll have to run a hose from the seacock, add an inline strainer, and mount the pump on a bulkhead somewhere. I don’t know if any strainers that would mount directly to the seacock and then accept a pump on top; I could be wrong though. I’ve never had problems with weeds in the pump, but if you boat in an area with a lot of floating weeds you may have an issue.

0 degree is the way to go if you’re mounting the pump to the seacock. Even if you’re going to do a remote mount and use a hose, I’d recommend a threaded 90 degree barbed fitting on top of a threaded 0 degree seacock. Don’t use a 90 with a pump.

 

[PKS1801]

I may be wrong, but I believe that the Perko seacock that you showed is one piece, and the bottom flange serves as the backing plate for the thru hull strainer.
The more components that you link together, without securing them to something structural, increases the chances of failure due to vibration. It's not a bad idea to mount the pump to a bulkhead, as long as it is not increasing the vertical head too much. You could run a 90* elbow plus hose, from the top of the seacock, to the bottom of a horizontally secured pump, or another 90* if you want the pump upright. I don't think it matters on a live well pump, as long as the impeller stays flooded. It is pretty common on a bass boat, for the live well pump to mount horizontally thru the transom.

 

[pelagic2530]

I may be wrong, but I believe that the Perko seacock that you showed is one piece, and the bottom flange serves as the backing plate for the thru hull strainer.
The more components that you link together, without securing them to something structural, increases the chances of failure due to vibration. It's not a bad idea to mount the pump to a bulkhead, as long as it is not increasing the vertical head too much. You could run a 90* elbow plus hose, from the top of the seacock, to the bottom of a horizontally secured pump, or another 90* if you want the pump upright. I don't think it matters on a live well pump, as long as the impeller stays flooded. It is pretty common on a bass boat, for the live well pump to mount horizontally thru the transom.

The issue with the backing plate is that the hull thickness alone isn’t really sufficient to secure the screws to hold either the seacock or the pickup in place without risking the hardware punching through the hull. Putting a 1/2” or so piece of glass epoxied to the hull in that area gives you something for the hardware to bite into. The high speed pickup gets mounted to the hull with screws; the seacock gets spun on to the top of the threaded pickup tube, aligned correctly, bedded with 5200, and screwed down into the backing plate.

Don’t forget to mock the whole thing up before you install it, to make sure you won’t need to trim the threaded pickup tube to a shorter length so the seacock will fit flush with the backing plate. Also, make your backing plate large enough to cover the hardware footprint for both the pickup and the seacock.

Is it overkill? Possibly, but hull penetrations aren’t great things to skimp out on. Doing it this way results in the most solid possible installation.

 

[Tunagi]

I'm a big fan overkill, over-engineering, safe than sorry,....however you want to say it!
Build it beefier than it needs to be and not have to worry.

Appreciate all the input. Planning on picking up parts next week, so there may be a few more questions between now and then.

Hoping I didn't cash in too many at this point! Thanks again Guys.