Repowering with either E-Tec or Suzuki

[warthog5]

My buddy John has a 23 W/A. He's headed to S. Fla. on Sunday. New DF-250APX. Local couldn't touch it. $17K tax/tag/labor....out the door.

 

[Ludicrous40]

DE300PXAA is installed. Current prop I'm testing is an Evinrude Cyclone 4 blade 17 pitch.

I've had it out once, and am out again in the morning.

The boat is night and day different. Feels lighter, quicker, more responsive, and is riding higher on the chop. I'll post some numbers after this weekend, but on our first trip I could cruise anywhere from 22 to 28 knots without really having the hammer down.

I'm not sure that I'll stay with this prop as my WOT rpms are a little on the low side at about 5100. They like to see at least 5500 with this motor.

The dealer tested both the 15 pitch, and the 17 pitch and got a top speed of about 39mph with both of them. We opted to try the 17 as the 15 let the motor rpms go just a little high and hit the rev limiter. I'm not sure that would be a problem as I'm not going to push it there, but I want to get this propped correctly.

More to follow.....

 

[kidfreediver]

Need to move it to 5700 for optimum performance read about it on the etec group forum. Great site. I knew u would like this motor. Response and out of the hole shot is amazing. No four stroke will come close. How do u like the fuel economy at idle for trolling and how quiet it is?

 

[warthog5]

No four stroke will come close.

LOL

Oh I remember the day's....Back in '04-'05 over on THT.... Bla Bla Bla about how a 2 stroke would out pull a 4 stoke. That was the era when the Big 4 strokes were coming online. [200,225,250's]

It took a Whole bunch of manipulating....but I finally pinned the guy down. He kept saying 4 stroke to some Merc 2 stroke.....But Finally "What 4stroke are you talking about?"

It was a Yamaha!

Suzuki is geared Lower and swings a LARGER prop....This is something that Joe boater doesn't think about.

300 Etec = 1.85:1

DF-300AP = 2.08:1 This 4 stroke is designed to turn 5700 - 6300RPM - I swing a 3 X 16 X 17 Suzzy prop [That's a 16in dia prop....More bite on the water]


You will note on Etec site...They compare to a F300 Yamaha.

 

[DaleH]

You will note on Etec site ...they compare to a F300 Yamaha.

Where the Yam is only a ~280-285hp motor unless you run 89-octane or > fuel ... don't forget that!

IMHO it's the biggest sham foisted on the unknowing at best, or ignorant at worst, boating public ... their big V-6 4-strokes only produce their rated HP whilst burning high octane fuel.

 

[kidfreediver]

What is your gph at cruise. Like at 4300 rpms. I'm doing 31mph at 12.4 gph and I'm not prop correctly yet or on skim flat water. That's about 2.5mpg. Still going to get a wider prop and haven't tried the four blade prop yet. At troll I'm running 2.0 to 2.2 mph and burning 0.2-0.3 gph. This motor is great I think I could get 2.7mpg if I changed the prop. That's gear, three adults and 3/4 full tanks.

 

[Ludicrous40]

Those numbers are a huge improvement over mine right now....

With the 4 blade 17pitch the lowest gph I've seen is about 15, and the motor seems to want to run at about 4500. In the 4000 range it will start to fall off depending on the seas. I'm probably averaging closer to 18, and/or just around 1mpg. This was with 4 passengers, full tank, and very flat seas.

I going to try the 15pitch 4 blade, and am also thinking about getting the hub kit for the 3 x 15 3/4 x 15p that I had put on the Yamaha.

There's no way I'm leaving it configured where my WOT is only 5100.

I'm going out again tomorrow with the same prop as they are closing haddock on 9/1/14, and I have the opportunity to go.

 

[kidfreediver]

Wow that doesn't sound right. I was cruising at 22.5mph and getting 12.8 all trimmed out. In 7ft seas every 7 seconds with 3ft wind chop. That was on the way back up hill. That's about 1.7 mpg. What is ur dead rise and how big are the trim tabs

 

[Ludicrous40]

16 degree
Factory tabs that are set into the hull, 12x14
I didn't have the tabs deployed other than to balance load

 

[kidfreediver]

I'm a 14 degree dead rise and I run 20x12 Trim tabs. How did ur test run go yesterday

 

[kidfreediver]

Etec is winning the race

 

[Ludicrous40]

Seemed better today, but I know I'm not propped right, so this is all temporary.

I got it up to 5200rpms and 39mph out the outgoing in a tidal river. That was at least what the dealership got, but not enough.

The seas were 5ft with a steady 15kt to 20kt SW wind. Pretty funky seas.
I traveled SE at an average of 22mph and about 14gph (1.5mpg). A new experience for me was that I just kept my hand off the throttle and let the motor fluctuate with the seas. Our speed ranged from 17mph to 25mph (due to the conditions) and the motor handled the fluctuation like a diesel. Every time I thought it was going to lose it, and just fall off, it recovered nicely. Made for a comfortable ride on a day when everyone else stayed home.

I've reached out to Ken at Propgods, and he thinks the Quicksilver Thunderbolt (3x15.8x15) that I already own might do better than the Evinrude Cyclone 4x14.5x15. That means I have to buy a hub kit to try it, but it will pay for itself if I can get in the 2mpg range. I'm planning to try both props in hopes of finding a winner...

 

[kidfreediver]

You will get there make sure the motor height is good, and even going a little bigger with trim tabs will be better. I have been looking at 3x15 3/8x 18

 

[Ludicrous40]

My plan is to go with the wider-shallower tabs in the near future, probably 24"x9". I have read over and over how everyone on this site felt that the tab upgrade was the most significant improvement they'd done. Unfortunately I have the tabs that are set into the bottom of the hull, so not only do I have to move the actuators, but I have to fill the voids as well.

So you think you can spin a 15.8 prop with an 18 pitch? Just seems like too big of a jump, aren't you running a 3 x 14.5 x 17 now? I would think the increased diameter and pitch would be too much, and you'll be right where I am now, limiting the motor rpms.

I'm going to try the Quicksilver Thunderbolt 3x 15.8 x15 this weekend, and maybe the Cyclone 4x14.5x15. I'll let you know how things go. Also will take a picture of my installed motor height and running height.

 

[kidfreediver]

Well I want to go wider for sure to push more load so anything that is 15.5 x 15,17,18 and see what the rpm range and what my top end speed is

 

[Ludicrous40]

I bought the hub kit and installed the Quicksilver Thunderbolt 3x15.8x15 that I purchased for the yami.
I had a hunch that it would be better than either 4 blade based on your numbers with the 3x14.5x17, and was right.

WOT = 5650, ~39mph. But I'm not real sure about the speed, and need to recheck. It was pretty choppy outside, and there was lots of traffic inside (in a tidal river).

I was able to cruise at a decent range of speeds at about 2gph.
21mph = ~11gph
26mph = ~13gph

My only complaint is/was vibration at a couple low rpm levels. Basically at some "no wake" rpm positions my front window was open and vibrating with the motor. No problems otherwise. Curious if that can be caused by the proximity of the prop to the underside of the cavitation plate? With the 15.8 diameter my clearance there is about 1/8". I'm going to ask Ken at Propgods.

I need to run it more in different conditions, but I'm on the shelf for about two weeks, then I'll be back at it.

 

[kidfreediver]

Those numbers r better I'm moving up to another prop for this weekend

 

[Ludicrous40]

I tried the prop recommendation from the Evinrude dealer (Cyclone 4x14.5x15). Unfortunately that isn't going to do it for me.... Seems like my 2520 is happiest with a 3 blade.

So far:

Cyclone 4x14.5x17

WOT: 39mph, rpms 5200 (too low)
At cruise (25mph) the gas burn was around 1.5, but on a 70mile day I used 60 gallons of fuel...not acceptable. Also she didn't want to stabilize down around 4000rpm, and wanted to be at 4500. It was either too fast or too slow.

Cyclone 4x14.5x15

WOT: 38mph, rpms 6000 (just a bit high, 5700 recommended)
At cruise the gas burn is about 1.5mpg or slightly better, but there wasn't much of a speed range with this prop either. She wanted to be at 4700rpms and about 28mph which was way too fast for the situation. When I tried to run it slower at about 22mph it just wouldn't stay there, either would fall down to 4100rpms and 19....not holding plane well, or would jump up to 4700....

Quicksilver Thunderbolt 3x15.8x15

WOT: ~39mph, rpms 5650
Cruising fuel burn was best yet at around 2mpg
21mph = ~11gph
26mph = ~13gph

I'm going to see if the dealer will let my try a Rebel 3x14.5x17, and/or a 15 pitch, but for now I'm going to put my Quicksilver back on to collect more data.

KidFreediver: let me know if you have any new numbers with your prop testing.

 

[Megabyte]

Seems like my 2520 is happiest with a 3 blade.

I tested a bunch of props several years ago and discovered the same thing.
Mine seems to prefer a 3-blade too.

 

[warthog5]

Mine too. Running Suzzy 3 X 16 X 17 But our gear ratios are totally different.