For those that have re-wired their Parkers...

[SBH2OMan]

Note the wiring on the bilge pumps - my thinking is to have a "manual override" to bypass the float switches for periodically testing the motors and in case of float switch failure.

The 'manual over-ride' you speak of, is how the factory wires them.
The switches on the helm control the forward and the primary rear pump, bypassing the float switch.
The factory only installs a single rear pump, so if you have a backup pump back there, it will not have a switch (unless someone wired it that way).

You should be able to flip the helm switch(es) and hear the pump(s) run.
If it doesn't, someone has either disconnected or 're-wired' something.

Nope. There is a single switch marked "bilge" and it simply cuts power to the circuit; the float seems to be inline (after) with the switch

Btw the drawing represents my re-do, not the current state. I'm still curious about my 60 amp question regarding the stock wiring of the switch panel...

 

[Megabyte]

There is a single switch marked "bilge" and it simply cuts power to the circuit; the float seems to be inline (after) with the switch

Someone has done some rewiring. That is not the way it is supposed to work.
That switch should never cut power to the bilge pump circuit.

Your plan to have the helm switch bypass the float switch and activate the pump is the correct way.

 

[SBH2OMan]

Thanks Kevin. Yes, there is a lot of "unconventional" wiring scattered throughout the vessel, which this project is intended to clean up.

Warthog, I'm struggling a bit with the battery setup. Once of my challenges is that I have a house battery in the transom, and another located in the cabin. I'm not sure how it is wired up currently (though I'm confident it is not "ideal" based on the way a lot of other stuff is wired).

Here's my plan for tying the two batteries together while using the VSR. Am I on the right track, or can I run the "house load" wire from terminal D of the VSR to the battery in the house (which is probably how it is wired now)? Also, I'm assuming that I need to tie the two Negative Bus Bars for the house bank together, which is not reflected in the diagram

 

[warthog5]

So you have 1- 225 Honda.......The 2 House batteries are confusing to me. I'd like to see you post some pix's of where the batteries are. If anything and I've done this.....2- House batteries set side by side and wired in parallel so that essentially you have 1 big House battery. But normally a single Gp27 Deep Cycle for the House is adequate.

 

[SBH2OMan]

So you have 1- 225 Honda.......The 2 House batteries are confusing to me. I'd like to see you post some pix's of where the batteries are. If anything and I've done this.....2- House batteries set side by side and wired in parallel so that essentially you have 1 big House battery. But normally a single Gp27 Deep Cycle for the House is adequate.

Sorry, I should have been more clear about physical layout. There are three batteries total:

1. Start battery (transom, port side)
2. House Battery 1 (Transom, starboard side)
3. House Battery 2 (Galley cabinet, starboard side)

When I bought the boat, the 2nd house battery was just used to power electronics and was not connected to the original Perko battery switch. it only received a charge on shore power from a 2-bank Guest charger.

When I repowered last year, we replaced all the batteries with Optima blue batteries, and I asked the rigger to install the VSR and "tie" the house batteries together. Honestly, I have not inspected exactly how they rigged it (it is the next step on my project list). I'm assuming they just ran a long positive cable and a long negative cable to the battery in the transom.

What I WANT is to have two house batteries wired in parallel, then connected to the VSR. This way I have plenty of reserve power for future needs (like a windlass) and the ability to jump the start battery from the house bank if ever necessary. Also important is to isolate the house bank from the start bank to avoid voltage fluctuations on the electronics.

Another question I have regarding the house bank is that if I wire EVERYTHING except the starter motor to the house bank, in theory I'm causing voltage fluctuations any time I use something with a decent current draw like a washdown pump or the deck lights. This has me wondering if I should somehow "isolate" the two house batteries - one for pumps and lights (non critical components) and one solely for electronics. Or perhaps there is some kind of "voltage buffer" (maybe capacitor based?) that I can use to isolate my electronics from the rest of the accessories....(?)

 

[TunaJoe]

So you have 1- 225 Honda.......The 2 House batteries are confusing to me. I'd like to see you post some pix's of where the batteries are. If anything and I've done this.....2- House batteries set side by side and wired in parallel so that essentially you have 1 big House battery. But normally a single Gp27 Deep Cycle for the House is adequate.

I'm following this thread with interest.....

Warthog, can you clarify?
Are you saying a 23' boat should be adequate with a single starter battery and a single house battery if both are Gp27?

I'm getting ready to install electronics and I'm wondering about how many batteries to get and how to rig them.

Sorry for the derail Brent.

 

[warthog5]

This way I have plenty of reserve power for future needs (like a windlass)

I wire a windless to the Start Battery. If you read the operation of a windless, it says not to use the windless to drag the boat around. Use the Outboard motor to move the boat and the windless to pick up the slack. Therefore the Alt is charging the Start battery and supplying 14V to it. This is adiquite to run the windless.

I would not have the other house battery separated. I don't even think you need it.

I know what they were doing. Trying to stop the spiking of the electronics by adding that battery. What you need is a BEP Cluster switch and get rid of the Perko and that VSR. This will clean everything up and consolidate it. The House WILL be isolated from the Start when you hit the key. Your electronics will not spike. [Wired to the House battery]

Warthog, can you clarify?
Are you saying a 23' boat should be adequate with a single starter battery and a single house battery if both are Gp27?

They don't even have to both be Gp27's. I have a Start Gp24 and a House Gp27. As long as the Start battery meets / exceeds the required CCA for the motor.

and the ability to jump the start battery from the house bank if ever necessary.

See that Yellow switch above? That switch stays OFF all the time.....Until you need a jump start. Think of it as a built in set of jumper cables.

 

[SBH2OMan]

I would not have the other house battery separated. I don't even think you need it.

I know what they were doing. Trying to stop the spiking of the electronics by adding that battery. What you need is a BEP Cluster switch and get rid of the Perko and that VSR. This will clean everything up and consolidate it. The House WILL be isolated from the Start when you hit the key. Your electronics will not spike. [Wired to the House battery]

Thank you for your continued patience and help while I noodle my way through this. FWIW, I don't have a Perko - that was replaced with the BEP VSR unit.


I assume the PO was trying to avoid these voltage spikes by adding the second house battery, and was simply too lazy/cheap to run a supply to the helm from the transom to power the electronics, and thus I ended up with an 'orphan" battery.

With regard to spiking, doesn't throwing on the 12 amp deck lights or an 8 amp pump cause a voltage "spike" on the house circuit?

See that Yellow switch above? That switch stays OFF all the time.....Until you need a jump start. Think of it as a built in set of jumper cables.

Yes, I understand the operation of the BEP VSR (it was why I bought it) but what I'm trying to understand is how to best add the second house battery. When I called BOE and ordered it, Jim (I think that was his name) told me that this was the unit to order if I had two battery banks and one outboard, regardless of the number of batteries in each bank. I asked the rigging shop to run the appropriate cables to the battery to tie the two house batteries together into a single bank.

I understand that the ideal solution is to mount both house batteries side-by-side. The problem with mounting the two house batteries in the transom is simply space constraints. As you can see from my earlier pictures, there is precious little room in there to begin with.

So I guess the question is this:

"If one already has a second Optima house battery installed on the boat, is it better to wire it in parallel to the other House battery in the transom with a couple of long cable runs, or is it better to simply remove it?" Removing it simplifies the wiring and reduces weight, but gives up the added margin of safety for running lights/electronics without the engine running. I guess I'm from the school of thought that says "you can never have too much margin for safety and performance." Particularly since I already own the $250 battery. :wink:

Oh, and Joe, since we're both undergoing this same process, I'm happy to have you jack "my" thread - I'll probably learn from your mistakes almost as well as my own.

 

[warthog5]

With regard to spiking, doesn't throwing on the 12 amp deck lights or an 8 amp pump cause a voltage "spike" on the house circuit?

No.... But a 150 -175amp rush to turn a Starter motor does.


-------------------------------------------------

I just went back and looked at your battery pix's. The pix's are taken close up, so it is hard to tell what room is or is not available.

My problem with the remote battery is the long run of live cable. A single ON/OFF switch would be installed to shut that circuit down for safety. This battery would just tie in paralleled with the other House battery.

If you eliminate it you gain storage.

But to be perfectly honest....I'm not real keen on that setup at all. It would be nice to just stuff one of the Optima Gp31's in that hole and be done with it.

 

[SBH2OMan]

But to be perfectly honest....I'm not real keen on that setup at all. It would be nice to just stuff one of the Optima Gp31's in that hole and be done with it.

I just checked my receipts. Both the start and house batteries (in the transom) are Grp 27 batteries. They were sold to me by the dealer that sold me the Honda outboard and did the installation.

A quick check of the Honda manual indicates that the min requirements for a starting battery are 110 Ah/800 cca. Looking at the Optima product data sheet for the D27M (which I have to assume is the Group 27 battery), it lists the capacity as 66 Ah and 800 cca. Argh - does this mean the dealer sold me the wrong battery?? It appears to have almost half the minimum capacity of 110 Ah... But perhaps Optima rates them differently, since even the Group 31 battery only lists 75 Ah/900 cca...

I have an extra BEP battery switch I can use to isolate the second battery.

Now I'm mulling over whether to keep the third battery or stick it in the garage as a spare....

 

[Megabyte]

Now I'm mulling over whether to keep the third battery or stick it in the garage as a spare....

If you put it in your daily driver, it's not 'wasted' at all.
I run an Optima in my Jeep. 8)

 

[warthog5]

What is the battery size that is forward?

I wouldn't worry about the other batteries sizes to much. Both Gp27's. I did learn something the other day watching a Optima Youtube Vid. The Dark Gray cases are starting batteries and the Light Gray are Deep Cycles or Dual purpose and that is what you have ..Dual Purpose, according to Optima.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaM7exZmzKY

http://jci_media.s3.amazonaws.com/9513/ ... _Sheet.pdf

I try and put a Starting battery in where the motor is hooked to and Deep Cycle where the House is hooked to.

 

[SBH2OMan]

Now I'm mulling over whether to keep the third battery or stick it in the garage as a spare....

If you put it in your daily driver, it's not 'wasted' at all.
I run an Optima in my Jeep. 8)

Oops, I just spend $400 on a pair of new batteries for my F-250 7.3L Powerstroke... Not sure if it would work in the wife's C280...

 

[warthog5]

Well FYI....I have a Optima and a Gp31 lead acid sitting around here for "whatever" use. I also have about 6 core batteries here. I just keep those 2 good ones charged once in a while. You never know when a emergency will pop up.

 

[Brent]

Pbase has some tutorials

Battery cables and lug selection
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_cables

others at
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects

 

[TunaJoe]

Oh, and Joe, since we're both undergoing this same process, I'm happy to have you jack "my" thread - I'll probably learn from your mistakes almost as well as my own.

Thanks Brent!

My mistakes would fill this forum!

 

[Mike S]

I have had some problems with Optima DD (Blue top and Yellow top) reliability and have, at the suggestion of my battery distributor, gone to Deka G27 AGMs. Have 2 for 24V for trolling motor and starting back up, and 1 for starting. Can charge both banks with the Stealth charger - from Yammi alternator or shore power.

I re-wired quite a bit of stuff in my 1801 - a bit time consuming, but not difficult.

 

[warthog5]

Yea I have heard that the quality of the Optimas has gone down. I still have one of the original Stating Blue Top's from '06 in my garage to stick in something. I have a Red Top in my truck.

The other 3 Blue tops are dead. 1 start and 2 Gp34 DC.

I went back with Interstates.

 

[Megabyte]

I switched from Optima Blue-Tops to these.
Can't complain though. The Optimas lasted 10 years.

 

[SBH2OMan]

I've definitely heard good things about those Lifeline batteries. If these don't last, then that's the route I'll probably go next.

By the way, I've spent a few days ripping things apart and figured I'd post an update on this project. Bottom line, EVERY panel I pull or wiring run I inspect, I'm finding stuff that makes me want to shudder. For example, check out this nifty wiring job for the cockpit lights and courtesy lights:

Yup, a male (automotive) spade connector, joined to a female (no heat shrink) and then a wire nut tying it into the run to the switch panel. Yikes!


So I pulled the hatches off the transom and removed the batteries. As it turns out, the House battery is a Group 31 and the starting battery is a Group 34 (go figure). I then got a bit carried away tracing wires and decided to just rip everything apart:

And then I decided to get crazy with some "Goo Gone" and a stiff brush, followed by Simple Green and a softer brush. You would not believe the amount of CRAP I found in the bilge once I could reach my arms down there. There were probably 5 or 6 pieces of cut-off wire ties stuck in the strainer of the bilge pump, plus a handful of screws and nuts.

Clean Bilge!:

I also discovered that the bilge pump was wired to a bus bar that was wired to the battery shut-off switches (doh!). In addition, I found that a negative lead for the Trim Tab pump (obviously not factory installed) was about 12' long and just dumped into the bilge. I marked it and pulled it out of the way, only to be able to see that my seacock was actually LOOSE. (I grabbed the live well pump on top of it and while trying to remove it the seacock turned instead!. With a couple of wrenches and some grunting and swearing, I managed to remove the livewell pump so I could get to the marelon seacock.

BTW - how tight should it be? I hand-tightened it since the boat is in a slip and I sure as hell didn't want to break it off while I was tightening it!

Next I pulled out the washdown hose which was flattened because of all the 90 degree turns it was making up to the strainer.

While tearing things apart, I found that the House batteries were actually crossing over to the starting battery.

Another Question:
When you have multiple battery banks (house and start) is it OK to have a single common ground throughout the boat or does each battery bank need to have its own ground system? Also, what gauge cable would should I use to connect the two house batteries together. I'd say the cable run will end up being about 15' for each cable.

Based on what I found today, I'm going to be completely re-thinking the way the batteries are hooked up.